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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:04 pm
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Funk is good stuff with 9th and 13th chords.

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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:52 pm
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CajunBlues wrote:
RVM lead wrote:
Quote:
7 chord -- Root 3, 5, 7
9 chord -- Root 3, 5, 7, 9
13 chord -- Root 3, 5, 7 , 9, 13

See how they are all related ?


So, a 9th also includes the 7th? and a 13th includes a 7th and 9th?

For a 13th, since a chromatic scale has 12 notes, what is the 13th...an octave + 1?


13 refers to the number of steps not notes... Think of 1 step=2frets
However there are 2 exceptions... the 3 to 4 is 1/2 step
and 6 to 7 is 1/2 step....
Sometimes I think it's rocket science....

Lets look at C
C-Db-D-Eb-E-F-Gb-G-Ab-A-Bb-B-C

1=C
2=D
3=E
4=F
5=G
6=A
7=Bb
9=D
13=A

13=6th
7= 1 step (2 frets) below root
9= 1 step (2frets) above root


I realized after I referenced a chromatic scale, that was wrong, but the way I used to remember it is also wrong. I used the major scale, which gets it right for root, 3, and 5, but fails on the 7th and gets the 9th right. I need to go back and revisit my music theory as I'm screwed up! Is it then correct that a 6th chord is the same as a 13th; just an octave difference in the added note for a different voicing.

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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:03 pm
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RVM lead wrote:
Is it then correct that a 6th chord is the same as a 13th; just an octave difference in the added note for a different voicing.


No, a 6 chord is
Root,3,5,6
13 chord is
Root,3,5,7,9,13 OR
Root,3,5,7,9,6

So the 6 chord is the 13 without the 7 and 9

Additionally
6/9 chord is
Root,3,5,6,9


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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:20 pm
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If you are looking for a good reference of jazz chords there is a really good Wes Montgomery book that shows all the chords and chord shapes Wes used. My instructor let me borrow it but it was was outta my league.

http://www.amazon.com/Wes-Montgomery-Bo ... 497&sr=1-5

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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:45 pm
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Thanks CajunBlues, I appreciate your explanations. These complex chords are ones I rarely use and my music theory background is rather on the weak side.

Someone once told me that as a youngster it was a good idea to take piano lessons even if your interest was in another instrument. Had I done that, I'd be more knowledgable in music theory.

Thanks for your patience. I will play "Spooky" the correct way (w/ the dim7 chord) now, but I tried it once this afternoon and it sounded odd to me. Most likely it's that I've not played it correctly for so long! I don't use excessive OD on this song.

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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:43 am
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Thanks Cajun,
After playing Allman Brothers style of blusey jazz forever,that's where I'm coming from,along with all the other blues styles I've developed my own voice over the decades,I think,...that's what I hear from others.
Duane Allman was very into jazz horn players like Coltrane and Davis and others and he approached soloing over 2 and 3 chord progressions that way.
The album "Kind of Blue" has been a reference of mine also.
I also like the varied 12 bar things like you're talking about...you hit the nail on the head...thanks!


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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:19 am
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CajunBlues wrote:
RVM lead wrote:
Quote:
7 chord -- Root 3, 5, 7
9 chord -- Root 3, 5, 7, 9
13 chord -- Root 3, 5, 7 , 9, 13

See how they are all related ?


So, a 9th also includes the 7th? and a 13th includes a 7th and 9th?

For a 13th, since a chromatic scale has 12 notes, what is the 13th...an octave + 1?


13 refers to the number of steps not notes... Think of 1 step=2frets
However there are 2 exceptions... the 3 to 4 is 1/2 step
and 6 to 7 is 1/2 step....
Sometimes I think it's rocket science....

Lets look at C
C-Db-D-Eb-E-F-Gb-G-Ab-A-Bb-B-C

1=C
2=D
3=E
4=F
5=G
6=A
7=Bb
9=D
13=A

13=6th
7= 1 step (2 frets) below root
9= 1 step (2frets) above root


I feel like I'm missing something crucial here. Doesn't the Key of C not possess any sharps or flats? How is it that the 7 falls on Bb rather than B?

I know the typical major scale is WWHWWWH, and the minor scale(which starts at the 6th) is WHWWHWW.

Does this not relate to how chords are built? Help!


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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:08 pm
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Quote:
I feel like I'm missing something crucial here. Doesn't the Key of C not possess any sharps or flats? How is it that the 7 falls on Bb rather than B?

I know the typical major scale is WWHWWWH, and the minor scale(which starts at the 6th) is WHWWHWW.

Does this not relate to how chords are built? Help!


Play a C chord in the open position= 032010; then add the 7th with the "pinky" (032310) and note that the 7th (played on the g string, 3rd fret) is a Bb, not a B. (and yes, the 7th is not in the major scale)

So the way I'm trying to remeber it is: for the major chord, look at the major scale and the root (1st note) is the key; the 3rd note and 5th note added make up the major chord. To add a 7th, add one full step down from the 8th note of the scale (the root one octave higher). To add a 9th, add one full step above the 8th note.

Hope that helps a little.

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