GT, devil's advocate is good. Not one teacher I know doesn't mind merit pay, we are all dedicated to our students that we know what we are doing works or doesn't work. My day doesn't end at 4PM.
This bill is NOT about merit pay, it is being paid possible 50% less for the one day of the school year when kids are most stressed out, and not teaching anything but the test. From August through the middle of March, nothing is taught but the test because that's the way administrators want it.

It does not take into account ANYTHING ELSE. It doesn't matter if a teacher is National Board Certified, which is the gold standard of Education, it doesn't matter if you have 20 years of experience, it doesn't matter if your students are all special needs kids, it doesn't matter if there is only one parent, sometimes abusive, drunk, or stoned , many times not speaking a word of English. Teachers will all be judged by test results from that one day regardless of the situation. Why bother teaching the rest of the school year?

This bill is about taking away from public education and the students. The sponsors of this bill are all people who have ties to charter schools, including the sponsor, Jeb Bush (who started this whole FCAT debalce in the first place), people who have ties to companies that would create more and more tests.
I hope you can see my point; I do respect yours.

_________________
Current Gear: Ron Kirn Barnbuster Tele,
Marshall: 1971 SuperLead 100>1997 1960-TV, bunch of pedals
and a 1987 Porsche 911 Carrera coupe named Veronica

Just a question because I really don't know, but is there a teachers union in Fla. They're big up north. NJ has a huge thing going on right now wanting the teachers to pay 1.5% of their health care benefits and the union won't let it fly. Seems like many of the members would be happy to.

Could they really get away with taking half your pay?

what do you mean when you say everywhere out in industry, people are compensated based on job performance? for one thing schools are not an industry or just another business. has it occurred to you that business models are not necessarily good for all sectors of society? also, business in a market economy is based on competition whereas the education of children cannot be based on setting up a competition based merit pay system for teachers. real education requires a whole community collaborating to deliver quality instruction for all students. how likely will real collaboration among teachers be if a merit pay competitive system of compensation is introduced? if a merit pay system is introduced it will work as an incentive against collaboration that is an essential component of a successful education system. why would a master teacher share classroom management techniques, successful teaching strategies, and overall expertise with another teacher when they are in competition with other teachers for levels of merit pay? My point is that a business model does not work in education.

Also, how do you determine which teacher will be given the high performing kids and which teacher will be given the low performing kids? How will this figure into a merit pay system?

how do you explain what no one wants to mention; the socioeconomic impact on student performance? how about a school that has a higher percentage of special ed students? how about a school that has a higher percentage of of english learners? how is student performance different in a school made up of students whose parents completed college compared to a school where the majority of the students parents didn't complete high school?

i agree that a good teacher is very important to a child's education. but merit pay is a half baked idea. furthermore, we all know that the teacher is not the only variable in the equation. what about the administrators, the school districts policies, the testing companies, the parents involvement in their child's education, and most importantly the individual students commitment to their own educational growth and achievement.

It is difficult to do pay on performance because each teacher does not have the same to work with. Teaching in a community of middle income families and teaching in a community of single parent families on welfare and surrounded by drugs problems are two different things completely. The support structure and needs are so different between the two because of environment. But to throw more money after bad does no work and the dumbing down the curriculum in the better schools does not help either. No child left behind by making it easier is a joke. Sorry the older ones that don't want to learn should be left behind if it is going to cost educating our future. Schools with metal detectors and Police officers stationed in them along with school Police. Thats not a school thats a part time detention center get those out that cause the problem.

_________________
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

Absolutely. Not only that, it would withhold funds from districts that do not comply with these rules.
One of the true purposes is to bust unions and take away control from local school boards and move it to Tallahassee which has screwed over education since the Jeb Bush years.
Florida is a Right to Work state...strikes are illegal and Broward County has its own union as the 4th largest district in the country.

_________________
Current Gear: Ron Kirn Barnbuster Tele,
Marshall: 1971 SuperLead 100>1997 1960-TV, bunch of pedals
and a 1987 Porsche 911 Carrera coupe named Veronica

01,
I respect your opinion and your rationale, but...the industry standard you use??? Look at Wall street and all the bank failures...those clowns are still getting bonuses. Not sure if I agree with all you say, but you do bring forth some good argument.
ABS

As far as I remember teaching was ALWAYS consider a "vocation", something one makes sacrifices to do. Gee, with every holiday free, summers off, NO "mandatory overtime" and lifetime job security (tenure) I can't understand what the problem is asking for concessions here in cash strapped N.J. Then again most teachers I know personally have abandoned prior political views and have now fallen "lockstep" with their union heads and are busy indoctrinating the youth of today into Marxist soldiers.

Jersey is a mess all the way around. There's no shortage of corruption there. Beautiful state though. I just can't afford to live there. The state just can't afford all the pensions and benefits anymore.

An do WHAT with "them" ? Should they be left in our communities unsupervised to commit crimes? I say put them in a barred and locked classroom after all even when they don't show up for years they remain on the rolls in order that the district still obtains "state and federal aid".

In my community alone I dealt personally with vandals that caused in excess of $15,000.00 of damage to my lakefront fieldstone walls and property from 1997-2000. None of these thirteen miscreants had been in school for years yet ALL but two were under eighteen (18) years old, still enrolled, the oldest were seniors in high school. One, the second of two bastard sons of the towns' female alcoholic, methhead police dispatcher was listed as an eighteen year old FRESHMAN who ONLY showed up to get his picture in the yearbook. His brother a "kid toucher" who molested neighborhood boys under age seven was spirited out of town (& state) by the dispatchers "boyfriend", the police departments' number two (#2) officer, a Lieutentant, before COUNTY detectives were able to lay their hands upon him.

It was only AFTER the story hit the front page of Northern New Jerseys' two most popular newspapers when the police Lieutenant. admitted in State Court that he "attempted to assassinate Mr. ##### (ME) after exploding an M-80 in his (MY) mailbox at 4 AM" that I was able to bring the delinquents into juvenile court and have them ordered back to school as part of their probation. I learned there that ALL had been or were currently on probation some since since age eleven (11). The police Lieutenant along with three "stooges" in the department, the dispatcher, and a N.J. State Polce supervisory officer (father of two of the criminals) all acted numerous times in the prior years to cover-up, cajol, intimidate, and harrass anyone who tried to gain justice in relation to the acts of this gang.

The police Lieutenant plead guilty, spent three (3) years in county jail and upon his release again came back for "Round 2". Within two (2) weeks he was again charged and a day before his court appearance commited suicide by severing his jugular vein nearly decapitating himself with a circular saw. The "state" had seized ALL his firearms.

Why does this relate to the first paragraph? Because school officials, school board members and teachers made it clear they were NOT reporting the truants to the probation department since "they didn't want the troublemakers in class". This was stated OUTRIGHT at a local "School Board" meeting by administration AND teachers.

This same occurence was repeated AGAIN in the last two (2) years as a group of seven (7) one who's mother AND grandmother worked for the town in the municipal building engaged in a vandalism spree (Reign of Terror) for a three (3) year period causing in excess of $550,000.00 worth of damage in a small section of my forty-five (45) square mile town. The nineteen year old ringleader was sentenced to seven years in state prison, his six (6) underage co-horts have all been convicted and are either guests of the state in the juvenile detention facility or back in school with attendance MANDATORY as part of probation.

This same school administration/district expelled a thirteen (13) year old for setting fires to school dumpsters and scheduled "home instruction" for the "child". In less then six (6) months he had commenced upon an arson spree in my formerly seasonal community. Twelve fires and numerous breakins/burgularies later it was later found that the "instructor" purposely neglected to mention to the school system or probation that he was NEVER home when she arrived for scheduled "instruction". His "mom (no pappy as usual) was in the local bar and NOT supervising her criminal gene bearing offspring. Even when police questioned them, his mother AND the appointed "instructor" about his whereabouts during incidents of burgulary, arson and vandalism neither admitted that he wasn't in their custody. She the "home instuction" teacher was PAID for each and EVERY "NON VISIT" when she actually spent her time in the hair & nail salon. She was NEVER charged with lying to police during an investigation. She should have at least been charged with fraud yet one can surmise that the Town Council member (former teacher and union rep) along with his School Board Member wife had something to do with protecting her.

Yet YOU want to leave this "refuse" in our communities I say BULL$1^# let them mow YOUR lawn, babysit your child. I don't want my tax dollars squandered on an entity who's best half trickled down the inside of his mamas thigh.

I don't want My tax dollars to pay for criminals to sit next to my Child in class either. Hows that make things better? These kids caught doing things to your home should be a locked away in detention school not in class with a child who wants to learn. Then when they get older they can move on to prison! You would have had to deal with those delinquents anyway why ruin a school class.

_________________
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

Yet even when they are "locked away" they still appear on the "rolls'. Look at Newark N.J. On first day of school less than 85% of those eligible for freshman year show up and of that 15% less than 15% of them graduate for years later. That's a "graduation" of reduced standards where most have been given the answers (like what has happened in Trenton AND it's sister ghetto Camden).

If others really want to waste my hard-earned tax dollars let them, the "students" use the Lincolns', Jacksons' and Franklins' to spark up their "blunts" and fire up their "stems".

Amen, sir.
I have instructed culinary arts here in OH, with the amount of BS in between. I will just say I agree with you wholeheartedly.
I appreciate your letter more than I can explain. N

I guess My county is doing something right. Of the 30 High schools in my county they are at about 80% graduation rate and many schools like our community is near 100% most years , last year it was over 1,700 in the community High school and the year My Son graduated it was 1,930 students in that school population 500+ graduated 3 students had to summer school. Now the other 29 must being doing something right to be at 80% county wide. and most of those 20% that don't graduate can be accounted for in a few schools.

_________________
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

hmmm i have heard about my dad talking about how bad this was.
i dont know much about it but i do hate the FCAT, just glad i always make all 5's on it.