BigJay

I can promise you now mate, it takes no longer for a gibson cnc to churn out a body, neck or maple cap than it does a fender cnc.

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Sorry, but I'm not apologizing for the Ikea comment. I did not attack anyone personally. They are guitars, not parents or other relatives, wives or girlfriends. So let that dog lie. It's just an opinion take it or leave it. Setting up guitars is not rocket science and anyone who knows me knows my sense of humor, and that I don't sugar coat anything. On the other side of the coin, I will try to help anyone I can and have had people email me personally for help and I did what I could. Most members don't even list their email address.

I've torn down my Strat, Tele, Supro and Dano and put them back together in just a little over an hour. The Dano was about half that. Bolt together guitars are not hard to build and build properly. Not all PRS guitars are perfect either. It depends. The Korean built guitars are just okay and not flawless. People on this forum act like Gibson is the enemy. Guitars are a tool. Some are Craftsman, some are Harbor Freight. Take it for what it is and choose wisely and get the best you need which isn't necessarily the one you want.

C'mon, you're avoiding the question.
I never said MIK PRS SE series.
I specifically asked PRS MIA QC vs Gibson MIA QC.

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La vie est belle, le monde est pourri, make the most of it!

+100%
Thank god someone else has the guts to say it... Sometimes I think the local guitar repair shop is performing highway robbery...

Certainly no harder than a set neck guitar with a poor neck joint and a ropey glued on headstock. (See previous photos)



Why do you have to keep comparing other manufacturers entry level guitars to what is proported to be a top shelf guitar.

I suggest you take a good long hard look at the average £2K customshop guitar and compare it to a lespaul custom. Infact compare a £5K gibson customshop to a £2K Fender CS. There really is no comparison between the two in terms of quality. Stop comparing entry level guitars to £1700 guitars.

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Louis, Yes Gibsons are (and in my opinon always have been) overpriced based on how much more you pay for them and the performance that you get for your money.

But there are other options if you want the LP look, sound, and feel without the inflated price tag.

I'm a Fender man first and foremost, but I'm a big fan of Epiphones. I own a Epi Prophecy SG and my son plays one of their Goth Les Pauls. Both guitars are very nice.

If it looks like a Les Paul
If it feels like a Les Paul
If it sounds like a Les Paul
Then it IS a Les Paul

The only place I've noticed that they cut some corners is in the pickups (not quite as powerful as USA Gibson) and you will notice the epoxy around the fretboard inlays if you look for it, but it's not obvious.

A great "bang for the buck" guitar as long as you aren't hung up by the name on the headstock.

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"Life is like eating jalapenos. What you do today may burn your arse tomorrow"

'Bought a new Deluxe gold top in about '73 for $425 and that was a lot of coin.

Still have it, magnificent guitar.

There is something to be said for, as the song goes...

"Ain't nothing like the real thing, baby...."

Guitars are worth whatever people will pay for them.

I have two Les Pauls, and previously owned a third. The first one I owned was a P-100 (versus P-90) Les Paul Special. It was not, in fact, all that special. The P-100 stacked 'buckers weren't as good sounding as true P-90's, there were some minor cosmetic issues (sloppy cleanup around the bridge post hole borings, but covered up by the bridge), and the nitro had not been cured properly (sticky neck). That said, I only paid $500 USD for it (w/Gibson gigbag) new (model closeout sale), so it wasn't that overpriced, just not a guitar I fell in love with.

If you are interested in Gibsons, particularly if you live in Blighty where all American-made guitars are overly pricey, the best bet is to buy used. The guitar will have been broken in, and will be much more affordable than a new one. My two Les Pauls that I currently own were bought used, both in local private sales. One is a Les Paul Studio Doublecut. I got it with a hardshell case (Epi case rather than Gibson) for $525 USD:



My other Les Paul is a Les Paul Classic. Got it used in minty condition w/ohsc for $750:



Both of these were only slightly pricey at most.

And worth every penny.

Hi Mthorn00 like you I'm a dyed in the wool Fender man but I too have a soft spot for Epis.There were always Gibsons that I wanted to add to my flock but they're way out of my range so I bought the Epi equivalent and have been quite pleased and even impressed with their performance and quality.As I stated earlier in this thread an Epi 59 Les Paul reissue that I played was the best Les Paul I've ever laid my hands on,much better than any Gibsons I've played.

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'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.

I tried a PRS CE22 when I was doing an amp demo, and I wasn't really blown away by either the tone the setup. The intonation was off above the 12th fret and the binding was a little funky in a couple of places.

nikininja, the cutaways were interesting. Are they supposed to be actual Gibsons? Those joints are really bad. They look like some of the garbage that was being made in the late 70's or the Chineese knockoffs going around.. I've never had a problem keeping a LP or any set neck guitar I've owned in tune. I never broke a neck either. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Like I've always said, I'd take a higher end Epi over a lower end Gibson any day. The big question is, are Gibson LP's a ripoff/overpriced? I still say nope. If you don't like them there are plenty other Humbucker guitars out there. Thing is if they are built so poorly and are so over priced, why are they still here and why do so many people love them?

The picture is taken off the Gibson forums. From what I understand the guitars are Gibsons from 1996-recent. The long tennon joint is the recent one.
Link to picture source

Note the brilliant neck joint on the Epiphone

You can just see with a sharp eye where the extended section of the tennon has been cut off to show the complete cross section of the body. Theres no super thin section from the 16th fret upwards.
It's a solid bit of wood all the way up.

Why do you never see epiphone les pauls with snapped off headstocks?
Infact why do you never see epiphones from any era with snapped off headstocks?
You dont see it on Explorers or Vee's. I've seen a few SG's but nowhere near as many as I have LP's with busted headstocks.

I wouldnt ever say their bad guitars. I just object to the common misconception that they are better made guitars. It's a utter fallacy dreamt up by people who need to justify spending an extrortionate amount of money on a very average at best build quality guitar.
To my mind the influx of eastern LP's with a better build quality is a good thing. No longer are we held over a barrel by Henry & co for a single cutaway 2HB guitar. The easter build quality is far better. When I get my Vintage (brand) back off my mate, I'll show you a decent neck tennon.
Gibson have got away with hiding shoddy workmanship under a pretty piece of maple for far too long on the LP line.

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if i had the coin i would get a les paul, i always thought they were great guitars. i love my fenders, and my next purchase will be a strat but i always thought that gibson les pauls felt really good. i don't gig so i don't mind heavier guitars (i have a jaguar which is not a light guitar). are they over priced yes... but to me everything is overpriced.

I never said set neck guitars were better made, just more complex to build and require more handwork. There's not as much CHC work on the Gibsons as you might think. Even the necks on the Melody Makers are hand made and vary a bit from sample to sample.

I have built many bolt together guitars for friends but I'd never see myself building a set neck guitar. In all the years I've been around, most Gibby neck failures I've seen are SG's. Usually after being dropped or the headstock being banged into a hard surface. I've only ever seen a handful of LP's and usually there's a good story to go with it.

In the link the poster say's "These pics are off the net." He doesn't even spell out if these are actually Gibson guitars or not. Many companies make "Gibson Style" guitars including I assume the neck joints. The three photos look like pretty bad workmanship. I would hope Gibson would do a better job. I have seen Epi's with broken headstocks. Usually from some sort of abuse. Many people just replace the guitars because the cost of the repair is a bit steep. Like I said, I like Epi's. Right now I'm eyeballing the 1959 Tribute guitar with Gibson Burstbucker pups, Mallory caps and Switchcraft jack and toggle. It's a really sweet sounding guitar.

@63supro
Ok, you like Gibson no matter what and I really am not trying to convert you.
Just as a note, the PRS CE was a bolt-on and was meant to be more affordable than their usual luxurious models. Wasn't very successful and they've been discontinued for 3-4 years now.
Another note, the Tele Jim Adkins JA-90 is a set neck. So was the TC-90 and others before it.
I visited a couple of guitar factories; if you think for one second that is more automation involved because of the bolt-on neck, you are very deeply mistaken.
From start to finish, I very much doubt there is any more hand work in Nashville or Memphis than in Corona.

I do have a last (rhetorical) question and I'm out of this debate. When it comes to complaints of pricing vs received quality why is this always about Gibson and no other major guitar maker? And not only in this forum.

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La vie est belle, le monde est pourri, make the most of it!

But the long tennon neck joint in the last picture must be from a modern guitar as Gibson only started making their customshop guitars like that in 2008.
I'm sorry those examples arent worth £500 let alone £1700+. Gibson necks, maple caps and bodies are all CNC carved today.

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