While i agree that the 'real cost' in terms of portion of income of the average person, Strats are cheaper. i disagree that they are under priced.

manufacturing methods have changed dramatically. CNC machines proliferate the factories. cost of production is down, through mechanization, and increased efficiency. the real cost on manufactured goods should go down over time.

As for the set neck being more work, i don't think that case carries as much weight as it used to. The only difference is letting glue set.

the same machines do almost all the millwork at both companies, there is no more 'craftsmanship' at gibson than there is at fender, or even at epiphone, in China, and Korea. gibson's prices are inflated due to some romantic notion that their guitars are still built by cottage industry craftsmen, but it is every bit the manufacturing center that every modern factory is. Due to cost of materials an LP should cost more than a Strat, but the scale in cost difference is way out of line. it doesn't take an extra five years of apprenticeship to let glue dry.

Fender factory:


Gibson factory:

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

OK it is a Les Paul thread and different ideas about sound and quality some mention of Stratocasters , a thread about "Blackie" ECs old Strat with a maple neck, quality, a maple neck, LP or Strat, with this one turn it up and let the guitar talk price
http://www.glguitars.com/instruments/in ... e=Comanche

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you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.

As I said before, I have a '76 SG Standard that is a far better instrument than I am a player. With that said, I don't really know which side of the argument I come down on. However, that crack about the apprenticeship is epic!

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"To Be Is To Do" --Locke
"To Do Is To Be" --Thoreau
"Do Be Do Be Do" --Sinatra

Think thats the same for all of us mate. I can just about deal with Sooty on guitar, just dont let Sweep on the thing.



Look at him in action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzvMByw7HF8

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No no and no

I am not sure what exactly you mean by this... But, don't forget that Gibson had a genius moment by introducing the Epiphone Elitist line of guitars... I own a 335/Dot and I replaced it with Gibson USA 57 classics.. And I swear to god it sounds/looks/plays exactly like a Gibson ES-335.. The only difference is the Epi has nicer inlays...

But Gibson discontinued this line.. They claim it wasn't selling as good.. That may be true...

Oh yeah.. That elitist 335 was a 2nd that I bought new old stock for $850...

My Les Paul is a Norlin-era, my Mustang (as most of the US made ones) is a CBS era.

Both of them are well made guitars.
My Mustang has required less maintenance and tweaking than any of my guitars.
I love them both.

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It wasn't Willy-Nilly, it was at crows.

Truth be told, if you like it, it's not a ripoff. There's still a good bot of handwork on the LP's and I know this for a fact. CNC machining centers do not assemble or finish or adjust the guitars they do not glue the tops on or set the necks. I was a CNC machinist way back. I used to program them too. It was my day job.

I understand that they aren't made by robots, my point is that the lion's share of the work for most production line guitars is done by machines, nowadays. This is the same for every company.The key cuts are done mechanically.


having set a few necks cut by CNC machines, i can tell you, there isn't a lot of adjusting to do. i have done a couple LP copy kits, and the neck and the cavity on the body were exactly right, as cut by the CNC machine. So if a company from China can machine 'em this accurately there is no reason to believe anything different is happening at Gibson. So i set the neck, made sure the angles were right, and that it was centered, that was the dry fit. then i took it apart, applied glue, and did the same series, then I clamped it, and left it alone for a day.

You do the same work to make sure a bolt on is correct.


but the simple fact is you can buy an equivalent guitar to a les paul from a variety of companies, for a lot less money. Gibson is able to charge a premium because of the branding. fender does this too, with a variety of models. We say it often, in guitar world you pay 100% markup for 5% increase in quality..
i will agree that they aren't a rip off, though, they are never misrepresented, and no one is obligated to buy. so, inflated in price, yes, rip off, no.

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

You can buy them cheaper, but they're not made in the U.S. where you usually have benefits, are paid overtime, vacation, holidays etc. and have to deal with OSHA plus match employees social security taxes and more.

Gibson, PRS, Martin, Fender and others have the right to charge what they want just as much as we as consumers have the right to go to another manufacturer. Sorry, but a guitar with binding, a set neck fancy inlays etc are more complex to manufacture whether you want to accept it or not. Gibson, Gretsch, Fender, PRS and even Martin have guitars made outside the U.S. for less money. Martin Guitar moved all it HPL back and side guitars to Mexico. Higher end Epi's are still a real value. For a few hundred bucks more in pups and better hardware you can get a guitar pretty damn close to a Gibby.

63supro, please, costs are even higher in Europe than in the US.
Not only we have the same structure of benefits and social security taxes (and actually I'm very tempted to say more of them than the US), but you also have to the VAT on everything (no less than 15% and it can go up to 25% in some of the EU countries, like Denmark).
There are still plenty of guitars produced here, pretty much in every country and high quality ones - Duesenberg, Warwick, Framus, (Germany), LAG and Vigier (France), Burns and Fret-King (UK), etc etc. there are so many of them. True, none of them, matches the production numbers of Fender, PRS, Gibson, Ibanez or Yamaha.
I'm also quite tempted to say it doesn't come cheaper to manufacture in Japan and Australia, but I really don't know the facts.

That being is said, it's only common sense that each manufacturer has every right to resort to whatever price policy they so well please. Just as much as I, as a consumer, have every right to buy only what I choose to. As such, it is my personal choice to dislike Gibson's offering of new products in terms of value for money and discard it.

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La vie est belle, le monde est pourri, make the most of it!

It's not guitars coming out of Europe that coast less, It's Mexico, China, and Korea. The big manufacturers don't manufacturer in Europe because Europe has some strict rules on solvents and such. I used to work for a German owned outfit here and the union was huge there. They can't get away with what they can in say China. It's a shame because some really nice stuff can come out of China.

I've got the les paul Vintage Mahogany (now called "studio faded") and it kcks the crap out of some of Gibson's higher end, the quality control isn't there.

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Myspace
www.myspace.com/andygibson2

Youtube (rarely updated)
www.youtube.com/wannarok

I agree. I have a GC Silverburst Studio and it is a great guitar. I wouldn't change a thing about it.

Nah, they're weight relieved now, not really all that heavy at all.

Also, I just dont like the way LP's feel=\

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