Hi Jay: interesting post, good stuff. You understand I'm discussing, not arguing about it with you? So a couple of quick points:

But it already exists. I mistakenly called it Tagg in a post above: of course it is actually the Snagg instrument chipping system:

http://www.snagg.com/

If I recall an earlier discussion it was reckoned that the wholesale price to a big manufacturer might be $10-15 per instrument. At which point surprise was expressed by several that the Custom Shop don't already offer it. I don't know if Mike Eldred has been asked about that...?



But the three numbers would be easy to get and put together. If I was looking at such a guitar on Ebay, say, I'd obviously ask the seller for the three numbers so's I could ring Fender and check authenticity. That's the whole point of the scheme, right?

Soon as the seller gives me the numbers, bingo, my mission as a (fictional) counterfeiter is accomplished. A row of quick "ask the seller a question" enquiries on Ebay nets me all the pairs or trios of legit serial numbers I need for my wicked work.

This seems a fundamental problem to me - no?

Cheers - C

PS Jay, I am bewildered we haven't seen you on the "What is your favorite meal" thread. I happen to know you have excellent stuff to contribute there...

[quote="BigJay"][quote="Ceri"][quote="BigJay)
You got it right with a workable plan given current techology,when we concluded this the first time 'round. Seems to me that noow the ball sits w/the company if, at all, they give a damn.

Doc.

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"Another day in paradise!"

The simple fact is that no system is infallible. Luckily we have an information resource the likes of which has never been seen before, in the internet.

I'll stick with education being the only answer. A guitar's serial no' is nothing more than a dating tool and in no real way a means of authenticating an instrument. Neither is a COA, its nothing more than a pretty piece of paper. Any chip system would soon go the same way, just as people in the know on this thread have said to me. With security your always playing catchup, or should that be catchip?

Ed you kay shun is the only answer. If you cant research a instruments validity when you have 6million people's combined knowledge at your fingertips, you deserve everything you get.

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No no and no

BigJay NAILED it!

This is a situation where a little technology applied the right way would not only protect Fender sellers and buyers, but it would increase the value of Fender products on both sides of the economic cycle.

I can hear brad and the IT staff now... [/quote]

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Live long, play hard, and die with your Strat in your hands... just my thoughts...

Phife

Er, just on that: no, that Snagg system is passive. No batteries required. And the chip is absolutely tiny, the size of a grain of rice. Just like the things most of us have installed in the scruff of our cats' and dogs' necks these days.

I have no idea if the company is ultimately going to fail or not. But it has been around a while now and still seems to be going strong, far as the eye can tell. This ain't new technology anymore, after all.

Anyhow.

I've thought carefully about your latest additions to the serial number plan. Again, interesting. It's getting more and more like credit cards, isn't it?

Where I live we've had chip+PIN credit cards for many years now and they cut down on (not prevent) certain types of fraud. Trouble is, other kinds of fraud that just circumvent the measures simply take over, and that is what has happened.

I think right near the end of your post you were feeling your way towards what I think is a better (not infallible) system. Dunno about other countries but in mine we have a system called Driver Vehicle Licensing, which links a given car to an individual owner. When we sell a car we inform DVLC (the C is Centre) to update the database.

Isn't something like that what we really need here?

The purchaser of a new guitar (and it doesn't only have to be a Custom Shop) registers their purchase, as many indeed already do. When they sell it the seller and the next owner go to the database and update the information. So most legit guitars are linked to current owners.

An incentive to a buyer to do his little bit of work at the online database, because it'll make it easier for him when the time comes to sell the instrument. And it would help (not solve) not only with fake guitars but stolen ones too.

Some IT minded person needs to work out the mechanisms for making that user-administered online. Problematic but not impossible - I think. And by doing away with Customer Services input it becomes very cheap indeed, after initial set-up.

That's how it works in some other businesses, anyhow...

Any good?

Cheers - C

HA!

Well now, from the oposite end of that particular issue: I'm strictly an amateur builder and have never sold a guitar I've made or even a part. But if any of my pieces ever do end up in anyone else's hands at least they will be able to prove a genuine Ceri from a fake. Mine all have a left thumb print in the lacquer in the control cavity. (Truly.)

Howzat for biometric ID?

- C

Like you, I have little doubt as to what that would be used for. With that said, I don't see that there's much that could be done about it. I'd prefer that the legislature wouldn't involve itself, as I'm sure the cure would be far worse than the disease. I fear the baboons that make the laws FAR more than I fear getting ripped on a phony guitar scam.

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"To Do Is To Be" --Thoreau
"Do Be Do Be Do" --Sinatra