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Post subject: Guitars as an investment.
Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:49 pm
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I've been thinking about buying another guitar and was wondering if some are better investments than others. Obviously Gibson, Fender and Martin are all going to be guitars that hold their value. What I am wondering is, will my MIM Strat be worth the $350 I paid for it new in 20 years? Can you only expect to get what you paid or more if you buy a high end model now? Will a PRS, Taylor, Collings or Santa Cruz accrue at the same rate as one of the "big 3"? What about Ibanez, Esp or Schecter? Will they ever be worth much since they are made overseas? Understand, I am talking about what a guitar bought today will be worth in 20 years, not something that is already "collectible". Like I said, I am thinking about getting another electric, one that will be played frequently. I'd like to get something that will be cool and have some value for my kids to "inherit" down the road. It seems that so many instruments are so mass produced today that unless you drop a mint on something unique, everyone else will have a guitar just like yours. What are your thoughts?


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Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:53 pm
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From what I hear you want good quality, higher end but not overpriced, and something that you think there will be demand for in the future


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Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:58 pm
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Yeah Bob, but thats my point. What will there be a demand for in the future? There are so many LPs and Strats/Teles out there already. Do I want to buy something just because someone else will want it? OR do I get what I like and find out its worthless to sell or trade in 10 years? Its a bit of a quandry!


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Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:03 am
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I have over the years bought several guitars that as luck should have it appreciated greatly in value.64 Hagstrom Corvette-$85,66 Hagstrom II $90,65 Mustang-$150,65 Jaguar-$150,65 Strat-$280,66 Vox MkVI Acoustic- $90,66 Vox Phantom XII circa $150,67 Vox Astro IV Bass-$150,67 Kent Electric Mandolin-Free,74 Guild S100-$500,66 Gretsch Tennessean-$550. Last year I bought a John Lennon 65 Casino and EJ160E with hopes that would gain value and have them willed to my wife in case she needs the bucks after I kick off.

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Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:17 am
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My take (my opinions only):
I think that unless a guitar is fairly short run or very, very limited, it most likely won't increase in value much. Certain colors may have more value than others; i.e. Fender 60s colors like LPB, Surf Green, Sonic blue, etc. I also think that most CS guitars will increase in value, not like they used to, but there will be an upward movement.

What may also be good are amps and the tubes to feed them, especially old Fenders and Marshalls, and NOS European and American tubes; Telefunkens, Brimars, Sylvanias, Philips etc. There will always be a demand for those.

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Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:20 am
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guitslinger wrote:
I have over the years bought several guitars that as luck should have it appreciated greatly in value.64 Hagstrom Corvette-$85,66 Hagstrom II $90,65 Mustang-$150,65 Jaguar-$150,65 Strat-$280,66 Vox MkVI Acoustic- $90,66 Vox Phantom XII circa $150,67 Vox Astro IV Bass-$150,67 Kent Electric Mandolin-Free,74 Guild S100-$500,66 Gretsch Tennessean-$550. Last year I bought a John Lennon 65 Casino and EJ160E with hopes that would gain value and have them willed to my wife in case she needs the bucks after I kick off.
Hello!

My Godin Exit 22 bought for £289 now retails at £450 and my Godin XTSA, brought for £600 now retails at £900. Both are 3-4 years old and are in near mint condition, so IF I was to sell i rekon I'd get back at least what i payed for them if not more.

Enjoy!

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Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:43 am
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I've thought very heavily on this subject, and I've rationalized my way into buying a few relatively rare guitars. I have a couple different models of strats from the Jimi Hendrix signature series of the 90's, which as we know will never happen again because of the family's lawsuit with Fender.

When I was buying the first one, I always wanted it because of its relative rarity, and I knew it would only appreciate in value. But at the same time I wanted it to be my main guitar, and I knew I would probably just play it instead of maintaining it as an investment. Then came the second one. I really, really just talked myself into it. I told myself it would appreciate in value, and it absolutely has already. But I think I really just got it to have it and to play it. Now IT has become my main gig guitar, and is not sitting in a closet appreciating. There is a voice in the back of my head telling me if I ever need to sell it, I'll get more than what I paid for it, but the rest of my mind is simply asserting that I will not sell it, ever.

The reality is, most models of guitars are not investments because of the astronomical production numbers. The more limited it is, the better chance it has of appreciating in value and being seen as an investment. BUT in order for it to be a real investment, you have to treat it like one. Leave the plastic wrap on, play it gently, store it away. My Hendrix strats are probably worth 40% less than the ones floating around ebay with the original hang tags, plastic wrap, and original strings, completely unplayed. But you know what? I've probably gotten more enjoyment out of my strats than the additional $1000 value of those collector condition strats could buy.

Maybe I'm just too attached to be a collector/investor in guitars. Regardless, your general feelings are correct. If you want something that will appreciate, you'll probably have to spring for the super-limited, rather expensive guitars; the David Glimour strat or something of that nature comes to mind. Not many will appreciate in value, and of the ones that will, what will that really do for you? Whether it's an MIM strat or one of a 100 piece limited edition, if it's something you cherish and use over the course of your life, how much of a difference will it make to whoever inherits it? Other than the psychological benefit of knowing I have something of monetary value, the monetary value of my instrument only makes a difference when I'm looking to sell it. Will I sell it? Probably not. Will your grandchildren sell off their grandfather's cherished possession? My intuitive feeling is no, whether it's an MIM strat or a limited edition.

Call me too personal, but guitars that you love and use appreciate in sentimental value. SOME of those guitars appreciate in monetary value along the way. But think about that correlation. If something appreciates in sentimental value with time, how likely are you to want to make use of its monetary value by parting ways with it? Its monetary value becomes a simple fact in the back of your head.

A guitar as a pure investment requires a certain level of detachment, and a commitment to splurge for the ones that will be worth the detachment required to put it away in mint condition, and then pull it out and sell it X number of years later for X amount of profit. If that's not your goal, go for the guitars you love for whatever reason, and make the investment value an insignificant thought in the back of your head.

That's my take.


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Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:33 pm
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Usually from what i've been told the american ones are always worth way more when they are old. At a local guitar store they are selling a '57 strat for 10,000 And a music master for 1299! Those both were probubly bought for 500-900 back in the day. My uncle has a older les paul (57-63 never found out yet) and a 60's les paul is worth 25,000-40,000.
I think because they are american made they are more reliable (america has better resources than most countries)so there for worth more.My uncle went to look at his les paul and it was never played for awhile (15+yrs) and it was still in tune! Thats how good american guitars are.As for over sea's guitars If there is a really popular artist that uses that model then I would sell it then because that would be at the peak of price. Especially if it's an older ibanez,schetter,etc.The older ones would still have value but not as much as american guitars.


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Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:08 pm
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I wouldn't be concerned about current production guitars. Unless they are really limited editions or used by someone really famous, IMO you'll be lucky if they will keep up with inflation. Remember, that just because a guitars new list price goes up, it doesn't necessarily make your guitar go up too. There's a lot of factors like supply and demand that will effect the value of your guitar. Sometimes production costs on the new instruments goes up and has no real effect on your currently owned instrument. Present day mass produced, CNC machine made guitars are just that and nothing really special.

IMHO I think the glory days of vintage instruments is gone. Just look at the pre CBS vrs CBS instruments. Same with Gibson. You need a limited edition model to see any real gains.


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Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:27 pm
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I was never interested in resale value and always bought the best guitar offered at the time that was offered with the next step being custom shop because I never cared for the wait.

In the last two years I have taken more of an interest in the collectors side of things and look at what might be valuable down the line. Since my injuries have coincided the same time as the economy meltdown I have done a lot of reading on the subject and will share some of it and my views.

Well there are always going to be people interested in collecting guitars even if they are not good players or cant play a note just like it is now. Before the economy drop and astronomical rise of vintage instruments the guys with the biggest and best collections were not even players. They were rich types like doctors and lawyers who actually had guitar portfolios and brokers who would advise them on what to buy based on what they thought would rise the most. Once the real estate market dropped so did everything else.

I have mentioned this before but this is the best buyers market in the last 20 plus years. If there is a guitar you always wished you could afford now would be the time to buy it if it is in reach. Also with the drop a lot of musicians have been able to get back into the game. If you are looking for an investment straight from the mouths of the biggest dealers in the world the guitars that have held up the best are those in the 3 to 5 thousand range.

Now this is my personal take on the situation that in ways has already proved to be true. The most desireable and collectable guitars are still Fender, Gibson, Gretsch, Rickenbaker and the likes. Besides the greatness of these guitars they are also identified with the greatest players who were the idols of babyboom age collectors who either played in a band during there youth or just loved the music and identified with the players.

Now unless people just stop collecting guitars and lose interest in them which I would find impossible since more people play or own guitars today then ever before collecting will continue. But starting with the first Vanhalen album a whole new wave of players appeared that used different makes of guitars and had the same followings as the earlier greats. My thinking is -Great player with signature guitar that is discontinued =collectible. So all those guys who grew up in the late 70s through the 80s and early 90s have a new bunch of hot axes that are desirable. Check out the prices on early Jacksons, Charvels and Kramers and you will see what I mean. Now these guitars are never going to come close in value to the original vintage market guitars but if you can get a few grand more than what you paid for anything I find that desireable.

There are way to many factory made Fenders for them to rise in price and the same goes for Gibsons. There guys have the right idea with going with custom shop or special edition models or if you know what you are looking for, models that are discontinued or older that you can still get on ebay but are showing a good rise like the first 57 and 62 US Strat and Tele reissues from the 80s, or 70s Strats.

Now I have to say it is a rush to grab a piece like these and also a totally different game as some guitars especially when you are a player might not be what you prefer or would even buy to play so this is where you will find some division in your guitars especially once you find you are near owning a good amount. Personally I am not one that is huge on vintage guitars and given the choice of owning a 25K pre CBS Strat I would without a doubt go for a Hendrix Monteray CS plus 3 or 4 others in that vein than the one pre CBS but everyone is different.


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Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:17 pm
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I don't care about re-sale value--I plan to keep all my guitars.
My heirs, on the other hand, may care about re-sale value--unless they decide to keep them.

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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:16 am
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The only problem I see with guitars from the 70's and 80's especially, is many were heavily modified. It's what many of my friends did. Some of the mods would be expensive to reverse. I had a couple of old cheap beaters I did it to in the 70's. I'd be careful about 70's Strats too. I have a 72 that's original except for the volume pot that I just replaced. I see the prices of these things going up slightly but , but I really don't think they will go up much higher. Gold may be a wiser investment.

According to this calculator, http://www.dollartimes.com/calculators/inflation.htm the $300 that my Strat cost translates to roughly $1,576.27 today. Some of the realistic prices I've seen today anywhere from maybe $1800-3,000 is barely a $300-1400 increase in 38 years. It's not much in the realm of investments. They may seem like they're increasing, but It's inflation driving the prices up. I you like a certain guitar, by all means buy it, but don't buy it as an investment. Unless you can find a vintage D' Angelico or rare Martin guitar.


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Post subject: vintage
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:37 am
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Hey Guys, Its really hard to find a good deal anymore with Ebay you cant scan the pawn shops in hope of running across a great buy. A friend of mine is wanting to start buying collectables he''s just got one good arm and can't play sorry to say although he used to. Since I've got started playing again and his daughter is learning to play he wants to get involved. He bought her a 60th anniversery Strat for 800.00 and will be able to recover that I think ( He thinks it's worth 2700.00 ?) I don't but maybe. He now has puchased a 2005 tele for 900.00 although it turned out to be a fender special run it will probably never be worth much more. It is an american deluxe though. I work part time at a vintage store and people bring stuff in there and sell for almost nothing. You can bet you can't buy it cheap though. Those days of walking in a music store or a pawn shop and picking up a Les Paul,Tele or a Strat am made for a few hundred are about over. I still go in almost every pawn shop and music store I can when traveling it never hurts to try. Its my GAS problem. If you owned a music store and put a big sign up we buy used guitars you'd be amazed at what people would sell you specially due to the economy and Guido's got a pocket full of cash to give you 10 cents on the dollar. But we all dream of that closet case the sleeper we've been lookin for. I try to keep an eye on my friend to make sure he does'nt do anything too bad I don't know much but he does'nt have any knowledge learning as he goes. I keep tellin him you better be sure if your air cond goes out you can sell whatever you buy on Ebay for what you paid for it or close. He's got the bug and is having fun though something to be said for that.

Way to much info Sorry: Raggs

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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:04 pm
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I do not know what to say except this:

I buy guitars for what I want at the time I buy them. I do not worry about resale value. I cannot go into a music shop and look at a guitar and say, "yes that guitar is going to double what it is worth in 20 years, I'll take it." No, I usually say, "I like it, how much?"

In 20 years if it is worth a lot of money, hooray for me. If not, I will still play it. If you want a collector guitar, you are going to have to buy limited editions, factory specials, or first runs on models.

A '93 Fender Standard (MIM) is probably worth 2-3 hundred dollars right now, and that is about what they went for back then. Inflation has gone up so the 2-3 hundred dollars then is probably closer to 4-5 hundred dollars now. So you actually lost a little money on it.

I guess what I am saying is buy to play not to invest in. Guitars are meant to be played, not stuck inside a display case.

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