It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:26 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 163 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 11  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 11  Next
Author Message
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:16 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 362
Location: Zrenjanin, Serbia
BubbaMc wrote:
Here's an article I wrote a few years ago regarding ear training for guitar and linking your ear to the fretboard, hope it helps. I believe that ear training is essential and should be studied in conjunction with theory. Learning theory in a vacuum is pretty much useless imho. Any questions just ask;

http://www.jsguitarforum.com/forum/show ... hp?t=56336


Hi BubbaMc! Thanks for participating in this. I read your article and I couldn't agree more! But, at this stage, I believe that our friends learning this should not be interrupted. Because what I'm trying here to do is completely remove school methods of teaching and just try to explain, this very tough, rough, and hard (it is hard!) stuff as a friend. As if we were talking about it face to face. Of course, it's not possible so I want our friends here to get this knowledge the easiest possible way. This is the easiest way I can explain it, and it represents everything that I have seen, heard, listened, read, thought about. Because I must confess that I am obsessed with it, I have been since I was like 12. I am 25 now, and just want to share this and make it easier for others. If somebody knows easier way to share this, or has any objections, please speak your mind! It's an open thread! But, I am going to finish what I have begun, for my own satisfaction. I see people here like this, and appreciate it. And I am glad they do!
I would very appreciate if you could post your article here!
That's why I said you should play with chords, intervals, notes...to see the difference and hear for yourself what intervals actually do to a chord. I imagined it just as an introduction to ear training. And then we can get to singing notes, etc. Personally I hate to sing and just love to sit back, play and listen what the notes have to say. But, your article couldn't come at better time, and I think it would be great if you added it here. So that our friends could relate everything when the time comes. Thanks!

Goran

_________________
"If you're on a path that's beaten, it's not your path." Joseph Campbell

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

"All that is impossible remains to be achieved."
Jules Verne

www.stratcollector.com


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:30 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:13 am
Posts: 3317
Location: The Alpha Quadrant.
Goranm wrote:
BubbaMc wrote:
Here's an article I wrote a few years ago regarding ear training for guitar and linking your ear to the fretboard, hope it helps. I believe that ear training is essential and should be studied in conjunction with theory. Learning theory in a vacuum is pretty much useless imho. Any questions just ask;

http://www.jsguitarforum.com/forum/show ... hp?t=56336


Hi BubbaMc! Thanks for participating in this. I read your article and I couldn't agree more! But, at this stage, I believe that our friends learning this should not be interrupted. Because what I'm trying here to do is completely remove school methods of teaching and just try to explain, this very tough, rough, and hard (it is hard!) stuff as a friend. As if we were talking about it face to face. Of course, it's not possible so I want our friends here to get this knowledge the easiest possible way. This is the easiest way I can explain it, and it represents everything that I have seen, heard, listened, read, thought about. Because I must confess that I am obsessed with it, I have been since I was like 12. I am 25 now, and just want to share this and make it easier for others. If somebody knows easier way to share this, or has any objections, please speak your mind! It's an open thread! But, I am going to finish what I have begun, for my own satisfaction. I see people here like this, and appreciate it. And I am glad they do!
I would very appreciate if you could post your article here!
That's why I said you should play with chords, intervals, notes...to see the difference and hear for yourself what intervals actually do to a chord. I imagined it just as an introduction to ear training. And then we can get to singing notes, etc. Personally I hate to sing and just love to sit back, play and listen what the notes have to say. But, your article couldn't come at better time, and I think it would be great if you added it here. So that our friends could relate everything when the time comes. Thanks!

Goran


Brad can you please make this a sticky?

Thanks mate!

CC

_________________
Fender Stratocaster (parts build)
Fender Telecaster 72 Custom RI
Fender Telecoustic Deluxe
Gretsch Electromatic Pro-Jet
Gibson Les Paul Standard Plus
Gibson ES-135
Zenith Type-17
Marshall 70's JMP Superbass 100w
Blackstar HT-5


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:32 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 362
Location: Zrenjanin, Serbia
“And now the end is near
And so I face the final curtain…”

Wait a minute! Something’s wrong with this picture! We’re nowhere near the end! We have barely touched the surface! But, don’t let that scare you away!

Ah, the fourths! Of course, the fourths represent the fourth note in the scale. And the chord as well.

And there are a couple of ways to deal with the fourths. One of them is, of course SUS chords.
This is the secret beyond and about the SUS chords:
Well, first of all, the name is short for SUSpended! So, you must suspend or remove something, right?! Right! Of course it must be a note, but which one?! Well, ladies and gentlemen, it’s the third! Yes, you must suspend the third! And you must suspend/remove it from the basic chord. In C major, as you all know the third is an E, and if you want to make a sus chord from the basic C (or whatever chord really) you must leave the root and the fifth and only play those two notes (without the E note). Now, the “Csus” term doesn’t seem to be the favourite in music literature (depends on what part of the planet you live; in my country note B is often called H (literary pronounced HA), but I find it to be more precise than C5 or G5 for example, on which I have come along in my life a couple of times. Maybe you like it better that way. In that case, if you ever come across A5 or something like that you’ll know that it means you play the root and the fifth of the given chord, with no third. But, it is more common on piano.

No, that’s not all about the SUS chords! Here’s the fun! When you remove the third from the chord you can add the fourth! And that’s the sus4 chord!

SUS4 chords:

The root, NO THIRD, added fourth, and the fifth

It sounds better this way:

The root, THE FOURTH, the fifth

Example: Csus4
C – the root, F – the fourth (half a note up from the third), G – the fifth!
Of course, you can now play with notes, intervals, and add sevenths (major and minor alike) or sixths, or whatever you want.
And of course, if you changed the third to the fourth in a chord, you must do the same in the scale you play over it too.

And that’s not all! Why?! Because you can also add the second when you remove the third! And it will make the sus2 chord! The second is one whole step/note UP from the root of the scale and the chord! So, the second in C major will be/is a D. You see, one whole step up! Not down like with the sevenths. Whole note UP!

SUS2 chord:
The root, the SECOND, the fifth

Example: Csus2 (occasionally also known as sus9, but we’ll talk about it in some later posts)
C – the root, D – the second, G – the fifth

If you added the seventh here, for instance, you would get C7sus2. Or major seven, you would get CM7sus2. You see, pure logic!

Don’t let this fool you, when the third is removed, you either add the fourth (sus4 chords), or the second (sus2 chords) to the chord (to the root and the fifth). You DO NOT ADD BOTH at the same time! Because you will make different chord than the SUS you wanted.


Hmm…what else?! Nothing that I can think of at the moment.

Oh yes! I do not make a lot of examples on purpose, so that you sweat a little and eventually think about it logically. We’ll make a lot of examples later, in time to come!

Next time, the thirds!

If any questions, or something is not understood, don’t hesitate to ask!

Until next time!

Goran

_________________
"If you're on a path that's beaten, it's not your path." Joseph Campbell

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

"All that is impossible remains to be achieved."
Jules Verne

www.stratcollector.com


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:44 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:43 pm
Posts: 26
Thanks I'm going to have a play with these on the piano.

Do you know of any cool sounding chord progressions that contain suspended chords?


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:21 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 362
Location: Zrenjanin, Serbia
BubbaMc wrote:
Thanks I'm going to have a play with these on the piano.

Do you know of any cool sounding chord progressions that contain suspended chords?


A song you mean? Well, nothing that comes to my mind right now.
But you can play Emerson, Lake & Palmer if you like. Especially Tarkus if you're familiar with that. Keith Emerson just loves those suspended chords, I can tell you that.

Hey, thanks for reminding me of this! When you play any instrument, and when you're playing a certain chord, and don't really know what to play next, be it a chord or a melody, or in what key for that matter, just look what notes are in the chord you are playing. The reason why certain chords sound so good and beatiful with each other (called chord progression) is because they have at least one note linking them together!
At least one note is the same! Or certain note(s) is/are probably an
interval(s) in some other scale and chord. In other words, same notes make different scales (there are only twelve notes after all). That's why it sounds so good when you go from C to G, or G to D, D to A, A to E (Hey, it's "Hey Joe"!). Because when you start from C, G note in C major is the fifth, and because that note is the link, you can go from C to G and never think about it. So, whenever you're stuck with a chord and you can't see a way out and any next step at all, just try to make the next chord the one that has at least one note the same with the one you're currently playing. But, beware of intervals within the chords. If you're playing sevenths for instance...well, you have more notes to play with if you're in an interval, but the next one you cook from there might not sound so good. Because that seventh you're playing in one chord might be the diminished fifth in the next one, and you might not like the sound of that chord progression. Unless you're into jazz like me. And like the crazy, awkward and unusual sounds you get by combining all of that together. And if you do get to like that, you've met Eric Johnson! He's my man! Check him out!

EDIT: Try to analyze songs you like to play this way. See if you can understand what links the chords and melodies and try to figure out why it sounds so good to you.

Thanks!

Goran

_________________
"If you're on a path that's beaten, it's not your path." Joseph Campbell

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

"All that is impossible remains to be achieved."
Jules Verne

www.stratcollector.com


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:47 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:05 pm
Posts: 2333
Goran,

quite simply - you are the man. I'm finding each of your lessons extremely valuable! Keep up the good work, friend!


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:45 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:05 pm
Posts: 2333
Where'd you go, Goran? :?


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:34 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:55 am
Posts: 4017
Location: Australia, VIC
I really need help with my music theory. I dont understand what a g major or c minor scale is, I cant read music (can read TAB), i just dont understand.

I just, try to make a few chords that go together well :lol:

_________________
riley


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:46 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 362
Location: Zrenjanin, Serbia
Toronado wrote:
Where'd you go, Goran? :?
D

Didn't go anywhere, I'm still here. Just need some time to think things through. Not to make any mistakes and to make it simple, you know. You don't want me to ba a teacher, right. Don't worry guys, we'll finish what we have started here!

rileytheguitarist wrote:
I really need help with my music theory. I dont understand what a g major or c minor scale is, I cant read music (can read TAB), i just dont understand.


Well, Riley, you came just at the right moment! Today I'll post about the thirds and explain minor and major chords.

rileytheguitarist wrote:
I just, try to make a few chords that go together well


You see, that's what it's all about! If you read carefully my previous posts, you can see why those chords do go together well. I hope you'll understand. If not, let me know, I'll try to explain it better.

Thanks for bumping my thread guys!!!

To be continued...

_________________
"If you're on a path that's beaten, it's not your path." Joseph Campbell

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

"All that is impossible remains to be achieved."
Jules Verne

www.stratcollector.com


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:48 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:55 am
Posts: 4017
Location: Australia, VIC
Goranm wrote:
Toronado wrote:
Where'd you go, Goran? :?
D

Didn't go anywhere, I'm still here. Just need some time to think things through. Not to make any mistakes and to make it simple, you know. You don't want me to ba a teacher, right. Don't worry guys, we'll finish what we have started here!

rileytheguitarist wrote:
I really need help with my music theory. I dont understand what a g major or c minor scale is, I cant read music (can read TAB), i just dont understand.


Well, Riley, you came just at the right moment! Today I'll post about the thirds and explain minor and major chords.

rileytheguitarist wrote:
I just, try to make a few chords that go together well


You see, that's what it's all about! If you read carefully my previous posts, you can see why those chords do go together well. I hope you'll understand. If not, let me know, I'll try to explain it better.

Thanks for bumping my thread guys!!!

To be continued...

So I'm on the right track or...?

_________________
riley


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:03 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 362
Location: Zrenjanin, Serbia
rileytheguitarist wrote:
Goranm wrote:
Toronado wrote:
Where'd you go, Goran? :?
D

Didn't go anywhere, I'm still here. Just need some time to think things through. Not to make any mistakes and to make it simple, you know. You don't want me to ba a teacher, right. Don't worry guys, we'll finish what we have started here!

rileytheguitarist wrote:
I really need help with my music theory. I dont understand what a g major or c minor scale is, I cant read music (can read TAB), i just dont understand.


Well, Riley, you came just at the right moment! Today I'll post about the thirds and explain minor and major chords.

rileytheguitarist wrote:
I just, try to make a few chords that go together well


You see, that's what it's all about! If you read carefully my previous posts, you can see why those chords do go together well. I hope you'll understand. If not, let me know, I'll try to explain it better.

Thanks for bumping my thread guys!!!

To be continued...

So I'm on the right track or...?


There sure is a reason why they sound good together. It's good that you know what chords go with each other by now, so yes, you are on the right track. Just use my previous posts and try to incorporate it into your own observations. Mix it together. Don't force yourself to understand it right away, take your time and don't let it irritate you. If any misunderstandings please let me know.

_________________
"If you're on a path that's beaten, it's not your path." Joseph Campbell

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

"All that is impossible remains to be achieved."
Jules Verne

www.stratcollector.com


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:49 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 362
Location: Zrenjanin, Serbia
A lot of musicians don’t know the difference between major and minor scales. And, I am pretty sure, you will be surprised how easy it is.


THE THIRDS


Of course, the third note of the scales and chords. We had been focused on major chords and scales (if need be, read that again so that you could follow this), and it was for a reason. You don’t need to learn everything at once, and you don’t need to learn everything simply by remembering! Because you can come to this by only being logical. And with a bit of sweating too. Hey, it’s good to sweat a little. Nature!

Major thirds make major chords. The name says it all, doesn’t it?! Yes, it means that all the thirds you have come across so far in every major chord you can play, is the major third of the scale!
So, what is the minor third?! The minor third is half a step/note below the major third.
So, you need to know what major third is in order to get the minor third. It’s the easier way. That’s why I kept you on major chords so far, and tried to explain intervals and other possibilities and combinations through major chords and scales. I didn’t want to play smart and mix major and minor. That wouldn’t bring nothing more but confusion.

You now know that you can make minor chords and scales from the major ones, and that you can do it by simply lowering the major third for half a step.

Example: C major – as we all know, the third in C major is an E. You want to make C minor chord, and you’ll do it simply by lowering that E for half a note, so you’ll get D#/Eb. Simple? Just like lowering and raising (sharpening and diminishing) the fifths.
The same pattern.

So, after lowering that major third and making it a minor third (in any chord), in our example on C major, C minor will have these notes: C D# G. You see, the root and the fifth remain the same, but you lower the third.

DO NOT LOWER THE MINOR THIRD!!! It will get you to another chord, not the one you wanted! APLLY THIS ONLY ON MAJOR CHORDS!!! So, make your minor chords from major chords using this pattern.

Another example: G major notes: G B D
G minor notes: G Bb D

The third B in major chord lowered half a step to Bb.

Now, of course, you can play with it and add intervals. But, there is one more interesting mode in minor chords!

THE DIMINISHED CHORDS!

In order to get the DIMinished chords (written Cdim, Ddim, Adim…) you need to know the following: the third in DIM chords MUST be minor third and the fifth MUST be diminished half a step too. And that’s almost all about the DIM chords!
Let’s repeat: DIM chords are made by playing simple minor chords and just lowering the fifth!!! And it’s a DIM chord!

Example: Steps to making DIM chords
C major: C E G
C minor: C D# G
C dim: C D# F#

Again, you take a minor chord and diminish its fifth for half a step! That’s all!

But, there is one little thing! You can add the sixth to the DIM chord and it will sound great! Natural! Full! The seventh may not sound so good. Again, it all depends on your ear and what you like.

Try it all! Don’t be shy! And don’t be shy to ask anything!


MINOR SCALES


A couple of posts ago, I explained how you build major scales, the spaces between the notes. Let me refresh your memory!

C major:

Major diatonic scales are built like this:
the root of the scale
C
Whole note space between the root and the second note of the scale, so it’s a
D
Again whole note space between the second and the third note, so it’s an
E
But, now the space between the third and the fourth note of the major scale is only half a note, so it’s an
F
Because space between E and F is half a note, regardless of the lack of sharp (#) or diminished (b) symbol.

The space between the fourth and the fifth note is again the whole note, which is a
G
The space between the fifth and the sixth note is the whole note, and is an
A
The space between the sixth and seventh note is the whole note, and is a
B
And between the seventh and the last eighth, which is too the beginning of the new, higher octave is again
C

So, we get something like this:
C whole note space D whole note space E half a note space F whole note space G whole note space A whole note space B half a note space C

(Marked red not to confuse you with the minor scales I am about to explain)

Remember that!? You better be! You’ll need it! But, don’t let me afraid you, you’ll understand!

OK! Minor scales! Example of course on C minor!

C
The space between the root and the second in minor scales is just like in major scales, whole note, and you get a
D
Now, the space between the second and the third is different, and it represents that diminished/lowered third, and is half a note, so it’s a
D#/Eb (the same note, differently written – enharmonic)
The space between the minor third and the fourth is again one whole note, and that’s an
F
The space between the fourth and the fifth is one whole note too, and the fifth of course is a
G
But, between the fifth and the sixth is half a note, and you get a
G#/Ab
Between the sixth and the seventh the space is one whole note/step
Bb
And between the seventh and the eighth (the root again) is one whole step too
C

C whole note space D half a note space D# whole note space F whole note space G half a note space G# whole note space Bb whole note space C

So, on guitar, again starting from C note on the third fret, you now play this C minor scale like this:

Third fret A string (C note), Fifth fret A string (D note), sixth fret A string (D# note), third fret D string (F note), fifth fret D string (G note), sixth fret D string (G# note), third fret G string (Bb note), fifth fret G string (C note)

See the difference between major and minor scales? Of course, now you can do the same thing you did with major scales. Move it along the neck, hold the pattern! But, watch out for notes! You need to know what notes you’re playing, because the pattern and position of the fingers for the given scale is not the same all over the neck.

Ok! That minor scale we have just completed is just one mode of minor diatonic scales. There are two more modes of minor scales, but we won’t rush it. You need to learn this first. This one is called NATURAL MINOR SCALE! Remember that!

Oh, of course, if you change anything in minor chords (the fifth, add major seventh etc), just like in major scales, you must make the same change in the scale!

To be continued…

Goran

_________________
"If you're on a path that's beaten, it's not your path." Joseph Campbell

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

"All that is impossible remains to be achieved."
Jules Verne

www.stratcollector.com


Last edited by Goranm on Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:37 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:01 pm
Posts: 633
Location: Virginia USA
Thanks Goranm,I am getting alot out of your effert and I'm sure alot of other are as well. :)

_________________
08 Fender Highway One Tele-Sunburst
09 Squier Custom Tele II-Blonde
04 Squier Standard Strat Antiqueburst
07 Washburn D10SCE natural with Rosewood backing
Fender Mustang II amp


Experience is the best teacher


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:38 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:30 am
Posts: 505
Location: Southern IL
goranm, this is helping me a lot!! good information that is simple and to the point. Which is good, because i have the attention span of a knat.:lol:

brad should definately make this a sticky. it's helping me and so many other people.

again, thanks a LOT for posting this.

-Jake :P

_________________
"I don't care how good you are, how fast you are. You ain't good enough no lessin' you got the soul." -Hubert Sumlin


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:02 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:55 am
Posts: 4017
Location: Australia, VIC
Goranm wrote:
rileytheguitarist wrote:
Goranm wrote:
Toronado wrote:
Where'd you go, Goran? :?
D

Didn't go anywhere, I'm still here. Just need some time to think things through. Not to make any mistakes and to make it simple, you know. You don't want me to ba a teacher, right. Don't worry guys, we'll finish what we have started here!

rileytheguitarist wrote:
I really need help with my music theory. I dont understand what a g major or c minor scale is, I cant read music (can read TAB), i just dont understand.


Well, Riley, you came just at the right moment! Today I'll post about the thirds and explain minor and major chords.

rileytheguitarist wrote:
I just, try to make a few chords that go together well


You see, that's what it's all about! If you read carefully my previous posts, you can see why those chords do go together well. I hope you'll understand. If not, let me know, I'll try to explain it better.

Thanks for bumping my thread guys!!!

To be continued...

So I'm on the right track or...?


There sure is a reason why they sound good together. It's good that you know what chords go with each other by now, so yes, you are on the right track. Just use my previous posts and try to incorporate it into your own observations. Mix it together. Don't force yourself to understand it right away, take your time and don't let it irritate you. If any misunderstandings please let me know.

:) I'll have a look at some of your post's in this topic later, when I have enough time 8)

_________________
riley


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 163 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 11  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 11  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: