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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:18 am
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cvilleira wrote:
Solid Body Love Songs wrote:
Thank you Goranm!
War and Peace comes to mind :wink:


:D :lol: 8) Yeah, well...it's the nature of the matter.

Goran

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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:04 am
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CHORD PROGRESSION

Ok, we’ve had quite a few discussions about chord progression in general. So, before we go on with the circles, we’ll take some time to see how much and for what you actually need music theory and how to use it. I can’t tell you how to, or how you should, use it, but I can tell you how I use it, and hopefully, you’ll find something in it to relate to.

Here’s a brand new chord progression for you:

DM7/A, Cadd9/G, G, C/G, F, Dm7, FM7/E, F, Fadd9, Bb/F…

It was actually born on guitar and was played on guitar, until about ten minutes ago when I transcribed it for piano. I have this idea of getting chord progressions and different melodies, themes, and so forth created on guitar and transcribing it for piano, and vice versa. Only to see where it can lead me from there. And it’s very beautiful being able to hear the differences and the changes in style that two different instruments can bring over the same harmony, or chord progression. On guitar it lead me to a kind of Eric Johnson, Carl Verheyen style, but on piano it became more of a jazz oriented piano playing style, à la Dave Grusin and Lyle Mays style (if not familiar with them, it’s time for a little google-ing). Because the same chords played on piano inspired more of a mellow…well…It just sounds great on piano. Melodies played over this particular progression sound more natural on piano than on guitar. But, since the chord progression is not enough to build a composition, I got an idea of incorporating strings, or some kind of strings, played on synthesizer, or even getting the old rock synth sound (something like the synth sound in “Jump” by Van Halen) to play the progression, make a simple bass line, and wrap it all around with a slow jazz swing rhythm of the arranger, and practically combine jazz atmosphere with some more pop-rock instruments and elements. Actually, I want to make a backing track for a piano. If I only knew how to use this recording software I would post it here. I must learn to use it one of these days. I just hate pushing buttons all the time. I want to explore and deepen the progression more, so it’s not finished.

Ok! Back to the chords! When I was writing that progression, I didn’t think about it much, as odd as it might seem. Being written on guitar, the chords just fell into one another.

About two weeks later:

Yeah, I wrote the above text about two weeks ago! It’s been a very busy month, what can I tell you! I actually did manage to learn how to use the home studio program. And I am making demos all the time. I might as well post it here. When everything is finished. I really hope August will be a busy month, and that we’ll finally record these compositions I make arrangements, orchestration and demos for. About it later.

Ok! Back to the chord progression! Why do those chords sound good together?



First, let’s analyze chords more closely:

Notes that make the chord (symbol “/” meaning the note after the…symbol is a bass note)

DM7/A: D F# A Db
Cadd9/G: C E G D
G: G B D
C/G: C E G
F: F A C
Dm7: D F A C (enharmonic/alternate name of Dm7 in this case could be F/D, because that’s what it really is. A classic, basic, F chord with an added D note. You can call it whatever you like, as long as you play those notes that make up the chord)
FM7/E: F A C E
F: F A C
Fadd9: F A C G
Bb/F: Bb D F

Attention: Notes not in order as the name of the chord suggests they should be. That’s your job. You can mix it as you like, but be aware of the bass notes. When you play it, you’ll understand why bass notes are so important.
Now, take a closer look at the notes that make those chords and the chord progression. What do you notice? Can you see that each chord, when going from one to another has at least one note that behaves like a link between them?! We talked about it a couple of times before.
But there is also at least one change that does not have that kind of link. At least not the obvious one. Example, going from G to F (not related to this chord progression, but just to give you a hint about how it all works in general). Those chords don’t seem to belong together because they do not share any common notes?! Well, that’s not true! Because they do share a couple or more of the same notes in the SCALE! And as we all know, chords come from scales, so…Play both scales and see for yourself, and find out what notes they really share. But of course, those notes may be the same but they don’t behave the same when making chords. In other words, the same notes are different intervals in those two scales. Note C is the fifth in F major scale, but is the fourth in G major scale, for instance.
Now, I didn’t make this chord progression by sitting on the couch. I just played my guitar and it came out. I didn’t think about it much. Not until it sounded good. Not until I thought it was good enough or that it needed a bit of a shaping did I start to think about it. That’s how it works. This whole theory stuff. Than I sat and wrote it down, and eventually started to play with it and make all sorts of variations of it. Like taking some of the notes of the chord and trying to find ways of playing those notes on other strings, replacing, substituting notes for one another. But, always have all the notes in the chord, do not lose any of them. Because if you lose only one note from the given chord, you may as well change the name of the chord, because you’ve totally changed the chord and the sound of it. But you can fool around with the notes within the chord. Take higher notes and put them in the bottom and the other way around. It’s great to make up new odd, different ways of playing the same chords. On guitar I mean. But, no matter what you do, always keep ALL the notes that make the chord.

It’s the same with chord substitutions. Somebody mentioned it here before. We’ll get to that.

Ok, enough for today. Just a little chord progression for you to try to figure out.

More to come! When!? I don’t know! But…TO BE CONTINUED!

Enjoy your blood, sweat and tears on this one guys! :lol: :D


Goran

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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:45 am
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Hi Goranm, good to see your post Bro.

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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:08 am
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Solid Body Love Songs wrote:
Hi Goranm, good to see your post Bro.


Thanks Solid! I appreciate it a lot!

Goran

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"If you're on a path that's beaten, it's not your path." Joseph Campbell

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

"All that is impossible remains to be achieved."
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:50 am
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SCALES AND CHORD PROGRESSIONS



DM7/A, Cadd9/G, G, C/G, F, Dm7, FM7/E, F, Fadd9, Bb/F…

Ok! We have the progression, don’t we!?
But, what shall we play over it?! A good question! Let’s see!

We have DM7/A. Ah! A major chord with a major 7 interval! What does it mean? Nothing! In this case anyway. Because, as we already know there is a major 7 in a classic D major scale. So, that interval doesn’t mean any change has to be done to the scale. Just play around with D major scale over that chord. BUT! Do not just noodle around endlessly. Try to get some melody out of it. I can’t help you with that right now because I have my own way of playing that progression and I guess you have yours. That includes different rhythm, different tempo, articulation… (way of playing, example: cheerfully, sadly…/I hope I said that right in English). What you want to do first with that progression is to just play it, just play those chords and don’t think about the rhythm or anything else really, until you are satisfied and it sounds natural to you. Then when you get to remember the ringing chords in your head, go to making melody over it. Don’t force it. Just improvise scales over it. You can make it jazz, rock or even reggae sounding progression. Why not! I love reggae. It’s fun to play it! And all of a sudden you’ll get to a melody. How do I do it you ask?! I just play the progression, and every time I change the chord, I get to the scale the chord came from. In most cases. What does it mean? It means that after DM7/A you have a Cadd9 chord. It again means that you have a classic C major scale to take your part of the melody over that chord. Why a classic one? Because a 9 is just an added interval to the chord and is in the scale anyway, it does not change anything at all. It’s not like we’ve diminished the fifth or instead a major 7 played a minor 7. In that case we would need to play modes of major scales. From major seventh interval in major scale we would need to go to minor seventh instead. Or if the fifth was diminished, we would have to diminish it in the scale as well. ‘Cause we want it to sound good, not…out of tune. You know what I’m talking about. Next there’s a G chord. Another basic G scale over that chord. And so on, and so on. Until you complete the progression and until you have your melody your satisfied with. Hey, you can make a pause, or just play the chord. There’s no law against it. Do as you’re pleased, and what sounds good to you. You get the picture!? Why are we talking about this?! Because if you analyzed your melody the way we analyzed the chord progression, you would realize that the melody you put together by just playing around with scales and over the progression, is actually made of the notes that generally are part of every scale of every chord of the progression. I don’t think you used a single note that doesn’t belong to and is not a part of all the scales and of all the chords you played. Every note you put in your melody, whatever the octave, whatever the string is some kind of interval in every chord of our little chord progression. Check it out! Analyze it! You’ll be amazed how your good ear actually unconsciously provided a proof that all this is highly logical! You just are not aware of that yet. I sound crazy?! Maybe. Go check it out anyway!



Until next time!

Goran

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"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

"All that is impossible remains to be achieved."
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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:37 am
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I just spent half an hour searching for this thread!!!!!!!!! I nearly got a heart attack! I just couldn't find it! Typed it in the search box and...nothing!
Thank God it's over! :oops: :shock: :D 8)

I'm sorry guys if it seems as if I neglected this, but since I've been doing demos for the past month or so, and doing everything by myself, waiting for others to gather, it's really been nerve racking! Don't try that at home! 8)
I am trying to convince a friend of mine to get back to playing guitar and make him do at least one track on this album I am trying to get together. But, since he had a tragedy in his family, he's got completely disappointed in everything, so I have a very difficult convincing to do. Shiiiiiiit! I can do it all by myself but that's not the point! I play piano, bass, arrange, orchestrate on it...I want somebody else to play guitar at least. To bring some different influences, sound, etc. So, I've been very patient in the last couple of months waiting for a couple of friends to get together! But, there's always someone out of town! And I don't want to make this a computer based record, I want to cut live whatever I can, so...
I might as well play it all by myself and cut the waiting! I am just listening to the first cut called "Probudi me" ("Wake me up", in English). It's a 1'15" composition on piano, so a very short one, but since I am making a concept album, where every song is just the part of the story it perfectly fits. I personally think it's one of the best compositions I ever wrote. It's just me on piano, which slowly leads into much more complicated seconf tune. You'll get the chance to hear it when it's all over. I'll post it on my Facebook page (which I almost never use, I hate Facebook! But it will make all this a bit easier).
Anyway, I didn't forget you all, and will post as soon as I can.

Cheers!!! :D

Goran

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"If you're on a path that's beaten, it's not your path." Joseph Campbell

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

"All that is impossible remains to be achieved."
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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:41 pm
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Goran,
Amazing timing. I have been working to tie together the relationship of chords, scales, and progressions for the past week. I still had a pretty fuzzy understanding....

Then I log in after work see your theory post back at the top, and I decided to read through the last few pages to catch up. Perfect. Wow, what a help.

Just saying thanks for bringing it back to the top and providing the clarity that I was looking for. I still have a few questions that I may post soon, in the hopes of continuing the lessons....

Chris


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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:41 pm
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chris-nc wrote:
Goran,
Amazing timing. I have been working to tie together the relationship of chords, scales, and progressions for the past week. I still had a pretty fuzzy understanding....

Then I log in after work see your theory post back at the top, and I decided to read through the last few pages to catch up. Perfect. Wow, what a help.

Just saying thanks for bringing it back to the top and providing the clarity that I was looking for. I still have a few questions that I may post soon, in the hopes of continuing the lessons....

Chris


Thanks Chris. Glad I could help! If any questions, please post. Maybe it could help me post more often if there were questions. :D 8)

Goran

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"If you're on a path that's beaten, it's not your path." Joseph Campbell

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

"All that is impossible remains to be achieved."
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Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:28 am
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Goranm dude,this is awesome.for self taught guitarists like me,it was kind of hell when i first started.four years ago when i was 13,i remember buying this yamaha acoustic and playing like crap...people recommended me to go to a guitar class,but i was too lazy for that....then i started searching for lessons on the internet....well luckilly i did find some good sites like about.com,jamorama and with some helpful youtube vids i learnt something.then,i bought a custom start and joined a band nearby..but i think its a long way to go to be a great guitarist....and if you have stuff like these that you are sharing,that helps a lot.thank you very much.i really appreciate this...

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Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:49 am
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Disoriented_someone wrote:
Goranm dude,this is awesome.for self taught guitarists like me,it was kind of hell when i first started.four years ago when i was 13,i remember buying this yamaha acoustic and playing like crap...people recommended me to go to a guitar class,but i was too lazy for that....then i started searching for lessons on the internet....well luckilly i did find some good sites like about.com,jamorama and with some helpful youtube vids i learnt something.then,i bought a custom start and joined a band nearby..but i think its a long way to go to be a great guitarist....and if you have stuff like these that you are sharing,that helps a lot.thank you very much.i really appreciate this...


You'll make me :oops: Just kidding!
I'm really glad I could help, that's why we're here.
I appreciate it a lot!
Thank you for your kind words guys!

TO BE CONTINUED...

Goran

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"If you're on a path that's beaten, it's not your path." Joseph Campbell

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"All that is impossible remains to be achieved."
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:38 am
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SHEET MUSIC

The bass part:
Image

Alright! We are about to get into some serious work! I promised to teach you how to read and write music, didn't I. Well, this is it! We'll start off with an, for most of you I believe, unfamiliar composition, "The chicken". It's a jazz tune, written by Pee Wee Ellis, and made famous by the great bass player Jaco Pastorius, who even kind of made it his signature tune. Above is the famous bass line, and is of course (as it is) written for bass, in terms of the key used to identify the instrument. About it later. It is of course the basic bass line of the composition, which, as you'll find out, is a very groovy line! Since beside the notes there is also a tablature, which all of you can read, I have come to an idea of posting this little sheet of music here a couple of days before the actual analysis of it. Actually, it will be a "step by step" analysis, meaning we're gonna go through the whole sheet in segments, simply because it's easier for you to understand and learn it that way, and easier for me to figure out this whole concept of explaning I have come up with. The reason I chose this particular piece of music is because, as I said, it is very groovy, and I think it will be a lot fun for you to play something a little bit different than usual. And it's a great tune!

Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgntkGc5iBo

As you can see and hear, it was written for saxophone or trumpet (I don't know what the family of such instruments is called in English. Wind instruments?), but it doesn't matter, because the notes are the same and it is in range of guitar (which is one of the most important things when writing for other instruments other than the one you play. How can you use an instrument if you're not familiar with it?! :D). More about it later.

Here's the complete sheet for this tune (main melody):
Image

Of course, you can see the site I took it from, if interested visit it.
Anyway, you have tabs under the notes so that you can get through it on your own, without knowing how to read music, but you will. I don't think the tabs are 100% true, but you'll get the idea of the tune and its feel.
Jazz sheet music is mostly one or two pages, with chord progression and the melody, the rest is improvisation. Unlike the classical music, where everything is neaty and precisely written.

That's it for today. Of course, you don't need to know how to read music in order to play it, but since we've come this far, and since you never know what music opportunity lies ahead, you should at least consider to learn it enough to get around with other musicians that maybe require that you read a little bit. Why miss some possible chance because of laziness, right?! Right!

PS This is not getting off the path we've taken towards learning the Circles of fifths and fourths, this is actually the extension of it. And through this you'll get to understand the circles much better.

EDIT: Oh yeah! There's chord progression written for this tune...mess with it a little bit!

TO BE CONTINUED...

Goran

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"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

"All that is impossible remains to be achieved."
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:20 am
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Goranm, thanks for posting, Jaco was a great bassist.

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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:46 am
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Check out this for Guitar Music Theory


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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:06 am
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iseker wrote:
Check out this for Guitar Music Theory


Hi iseker! Wow! Your first post, the very first day on this forum, and my thread! :D I got to tell you...I'm flattered! 8)

I checked out the link you posted, and...I am glad there are more musicians helping out other musicians this way. Of course, you can choose whatever site, or "author" of "Music theory" you like, or you can use both, or all you can find. There are no limits, the theory is the same, you just choose the method, style, and approach to explaing you like better. Thanks again for the link.

PS I know I'm late (again) with updating, I have some things to attend to, which will be over next Thursday. I can't post any sooner than that. I need to write it all first and need to "chop", cut out some parts of sheet music I posted so that I can explain it better. So...

TO BE CONTINUED... FOR SURE!

Goran

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"If you're on a path that's beaten, it's not your path." Joseph Campbell

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

"All that is impossible remains to be achieved."
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:53 am
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Just posting up to say, there is a wealth of knowledge in this thread that once I have a guitar back in my hands in a week or two I will be pouring through.

Actually perhaps I will pour through it now, interesting reading after all :D


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