I was just having dinner (salmon with garlic, seasonings and honey, green beans as a side, and Chardonney) and a PBS Xmas special came on.
It was featuring a soprano named Renee Fleming, and an orchestra seated behind her. I've never heard of this woman, and I will never hear her sing again, as this is not my scene.

But, where do you singers get the confidence? I mean, really? She belted it out forever. No coughing, sneezing, runny nose....

When she walked out, some of the orchestra members gave a look, like...
"..yeah, right..", but no problem, she got the job done.

However you do it, I'm impressed.

From whiskey and a broken heart mostly bro. It just happens.

CC

_________________
Fender Stratocaster (parts build)
Fender Telecaster 72 Custom RI
Fender Telecoustic Deluxe
Gretsch Electromatic Pro-Jet
Gibson Les Paul Standard Plus
Gibson ES-135
Zenith Type-17
Marshall 70's JMP Superbass 100w
Blackstar HT-5

Lots of pro training and lessons...

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culture ... -2009.html

_________________
Being able to play and enjoy music is a gift that's often taken for granted.

Don't leave home without it!

I always called it the lazy musicians gift.lol Yes the God given talent to be able to sing. My oldest son has an amazing voice and has been singing since he was about 4 as it runs big on my wifes side as they all have great voices. The thing though is he is not a big fan of rock and his idol is Sinatra. He just turned 17 and is now singing all these Italian songs that are amazing. The funny thing is that my wife and I are both Italian but neither of us can speak it or have any immediate family that can, he learned in school.

And this is what kills me about singers as they can sing at the drop of a hat and get all of the attention. Meanwhile the rest of us have used up a third of our lives learning an instrument and practicing hour upon hour. Some how it does not seem fair.lol

Because I have to. I refuse to let my words die softly, everything has to be felt and emphasized. So I do it.

_________________

Thats only true for about 60% of singers. Most are born with That voice but some of us spend years training it.

When i first started i couldnt sing at all, but a year untrained then with a year and a half worth of lessons ive started to get close to a pro level.

Its why im sick of these people who are just born with it getting places since they havent had to go threw all the strife and struggle to train it up.

But you know what? a trained voice can do a whole number of styles whereas people born with it are nowhere near as versatile or lucid.

But taurus, if you do want to become one i can give you a few tips that will help you ALOT getting started out

_________________
"Oh, it's a windy and sunny day
And I can hear the faint sound of distant waves
The past weeks have been going by so fast
It's all the same, the bright sky and shining sun
I have a feeling it's gonna be a fun day"

It's all in the diaphram (both mic and physical system)

_________________
Being able to play and enjoy music is a gift that's often taken for granted.

Don't leave home without it!

Do you have any tips on finding the right vocal teacher? I have to sing if I'm ever going to get to play the type of music I want, or any music for that matter since singers are so hard to find. I can basically hit the right notes, but that's about it. I've been trying to teach myself, but I don't really know what to do or where to start.

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Website: http://www.rebeccalaird.com
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Tips of finding a singing teacher, haha. Yeah its hard. Most will be classical teachers and that will do absolutely fine. Most of them will throw in some sinatra and someother big band stuff so its not all mozart and opera.

If you can hit the right notes then your getting there, work on getting the timbre you want and if you want that vibrato in the voice.

Most of all you need to try and get the 3 different areas sorted. Chest voice: this is where your completely singing from your gut, and it gives that broad, thick vocal sound. Head voice: this is where your singing from mostly your throat and will produce a whispy, gentle sound but you only gain a few more notes above your chest voice before slipping into; Falsetto: this is the really high notes, can sound a bit silly if you dont do it propperly but should give you a innocent and solumn sound if you do it properly.

Good examples of these are seen here:
Chest voice: Bb king or journey seen here (It does slip in to head voice a few times but you get the idea) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNB1EUJg1-w
Head and falsetto voice: This jeff buckley cover of an edith piaf song, "Je n'en connais pas la fin" shows quite well, its a mix between both voices but mostly falsetto http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EECFyOdRYU

Enjoy, and the best thing to do is sing along to everything then write a tune with it in, then improve upon it, The write another with a different musical device in it.

P.s dont get me started on the singers diet....

_________________
"Oh, it's a windy and sunny day
And I can hear the faint sound of distant waves
The past weeks have been going by so fast
It's all the same, the bright sky and shining sun
I have a feeling it's gonna be a fun day"

This is -just- my $.02 worth and should only be taken as such. Also please know that I haven't read the other responses (at least not completely) so please forgive me if I add anything terribly rhetorical or redundant.

"But, where do you singers get the confidence?" I'm going to address this one first as it pertains to virtually everything else I'm about to write. Let me ask you this; I assume that since you're on the Fender forum that you play guitar and I also assume that you've played out a couple of times...bars/clubs, churches or something similar...where did you get the confidence? Did you just grab a guitar one day and hop up on stage and start "jamming away" or as it possibly from years of practice and rehearsal and maybe even lessons at some time or other? My guess would be the latter...

I don't wish for this to sound rude or mean so please don't take it as such but people seem to have the terribly ignorant misconception when it comes to the whole issue of "talent vs. skill". For example, a person who has an interest in photography will go out and buy a camera...and then wonder -why- their pictures don't look like Ansel Adams. They figure it -must- be the camera so they go out and buy a more expensive camera...and most of their pictures still look like nothing more than poor snap shots. Then some idiot will tell them they need "better lenses" so they shell out even more bread...and their pictures -still- suck. -If- they stick with it long enough, sooner or later they finally realize that it's not the gear, it's the person using it and that they could have been taking decent pictures all along...even with a cheap camera, -if- they had of taken the time to learn what they were doing FIRST. Maybe you've known someone who was like this with a guitar?? Someone has wanted to play guitar (not "learn" guitar..."play" guitar) so they go out and buy something like a Fender "Starcaster". In some cases after a week or two they just toss their hands up in the air and say "oh...I just must not have any talent" and the guitar goes in to a closet. Sometimes they will think that it's just because it's a cheap guitar or amp so they go out and buy more gear...and still can't play. You get the idea.

Just as with photography and taking -good- pictures, playing a guitar is a -skill-...very, very few people EVER pick up a guitar (or any other musical instrument) and just start playing. For most people it takes YEARS of practice...whether you're self taught or not...and if you're in a band it takes even more time for rehearsal to get the band "tight". The exact same thing is true of singers!. I dunno...maybe it's because most singers don't have thousands of dollars tied up in their gear or something but a great many guitar players often don't really think of singers as "real" musicians...and that's simply NOT the case! Some people may have some degree of natural talent but more often than not, it simply comes down to this; practice, practice, practice.

As I've said many times on these forums, my wife is a musician too. She plays flute, hand percussion, a bit of bass, etc., but she is first and foremost a singer. I will tell you first hand that she puts just as much time in to practicing her voice as I do with my guitar...perhaps even more. What's more is when she is out of practice, you -know-! Now there is one big difference here...for me to practice guitar, I have to have my guitar and be someplace where I can actually practice...this usually means either my living room or my studio otherwise I have to take a guitar with me. My wife on the other hand can pop a cassette in to the car stereo or even just take her little mp3 player and a set of headphones to work with her...most singers can practice virtually any where...and they very often do!

Now I also have to briefly mention that in the case of something like "opera singers", this goes double...triple...ten fold! LOL!!! Most people could never buy a violin or a cello or a horn and just "join" a major symphony orchestra...they spend many years taking lessons and again practicing before they even consider auditioning! The very same is true of an opera singer...years of lessons, even more years of practicing and rehearsals and if they are very very good at what they do, the rest comes in time.

Rock and most contemporary forms of music on the other hand are usually a little more forgiving...and you can get away with a lot of crap in a garage band! LOL!!! If you really want to be fairly successful though, it still comes down to practice for most people...and that includes singers.

As far as the "coughing. sneezing, runny nose" thing, like a good instrumentalist, good singers do take care of themselves. You want to be a singer? STOP SMOKING!!! Unlike a guitar where you can take it to a repair shop if you break it, you only have -1- voice and if you plan to use it to make a living, you HAVE to take good care of it! And believe me...throat surgery is no fun at all if you can't be bothered to learn how to use your voice properly...just ask people like Brian Johnson, Stevie Nicks, Elton John and many others who had to learn this the hard way.

Last but not least here's a bit of history to remember; In his early career, Jimi Hendrix never sang...he never thought he had "a good voice". Then one day he heard a guy by the name of Bob Dylan and decided if Dylan can do it, anyone can! LOL!!! Personally I don't consider myself to be a "good" singer at all...I never have. I enjoy singing but I'm not very good at it. That said, if I don't have a half way decent singer to work with, I'm not shy about getting up in front of the microphone either...and I've done it many times. Sometimes you just do what you need to do!

Again, just my $.02 worth...please don't spend it all in one place.

Jim



Talent...ppfff...I don't have any talent at all. I have to practice ALL the time!

Ah mr lomitus, you've misconstrued me, there are SOME singers that are just naturally good at singing. Its beyond me how they do it but they do somehow.

Although i have a friend who's dad was from a punk band in the 70s, and he said it took him ages to learn guitar, then when his son was born his son just picked it up and within two years he was pretty damn good.

Maybe its a gene thing. But it does take years of dedication to get good at anything. Sadly with singing if you dont have the talent you have to spend years training it, if you do have it then you probably can get away with spending less time training it.

Its this whole, "Play with the cards your dealt with" sorta thing.

Oh and one more thing, youve gotta put your all into a song. For instance you wrote a song about a tragic love story, just like in the theatre, an actor would step into the shoes of the role he's playing, you've got to do the same with your playing. Some people are again, naturally good at that too.

_________________
"Oh, it's a windy and sunny day
And I can hear the faint sound of distant waves
The past weeks have been going by so fast
It's all the same, the bright sky and shining sun
I have a feeling it's gonna be a fun day"

I'll tell ya what...I'm going to meet you half way here in that I do think there are some people who have more musical voices than others. Like the woods used to make a guitar for example...some woods possess certain properties that give them specific tonal characteristics...and some don't. In the case of singers, take Janis Joplin for example...I'm not saying that I don't like her work but she doesn't really have a "musical" voice. That said, I don't really consider this as a matter of "talent"...Janis Joplin was after all a very popular and successful singer so there had to be some other considerations there than just talent.

Now with that, I do feel the need to point out the difference between "singing" and "singing well". Ok...anybody can sing just as any body can pick up a guitar, plug it in to an amp and bang on the strings. The question here though is; is it really music? I think for most people in most cases with no real singing experience, the answer is no.



Now here I would have to ask...how hard did the dad work at it versus the son? All other things being equal for a moment, consider this; a person who really dedicates themselves to learning something and really practices -IS- going to learn that something faster than a person who may only "noodle" at it. In other words, if a person spends time and sits down every day practicing, they could indeed become very good at guitar in only 2 years (only?) where as a person who isn't as dedicated...maybe they have a day job and a family and a life or something...such a person may not be to the same level even after 5 years or more. See my point?

I would also have to add here that there's simply the matter of exposure as well. Let's be honest here...a kid that grows up in a house where one parent...or both...or someone else in the family plays an instrument, said child has more exposure to that instrument...they already have a fair idea how to hold it and/or what they are supposed to do with it from watching "Dad play". A person who has never had this exposure is generally going to be at a rather severe disadvantage comparatively speaking. I'm sure there's a few folks on the forums here who remember getting their first guitar and didn't even have the slightest clue how to tune it...or even that it was supposed to be tuned!

With that, there's also the fact that "children" learn things MUCH easier than adults do. In the case of your friend, while I could certainly be wrong here, maybe his dad was a little older...perhaps in his teens or later when he first picked up a guitar where as the kid grew up with those guitar things in the house and probably started to pick at it a little when he was as young as 4 or 5.

Now in my own case, it really took me a while to learn guitar...I think I played for around 5 years or so before I really go in to my first band. Now drums on the other hand...it took me less than a year before I played my first gig as a drummer. By the time I started playing drums though, I had already been around drummers for a good 10 to 15 years so again, before I ever really sat down to play for the first time, I already had more than a fair idea of what I was supposed to do and what it was supposed to sound like. Does that really mean I'm a more talented drummer then I am a guitar player?? No...of course not.

I also have to add here that in regards to people who may have had some degree of "proper instruction", not all music teachers are created equal. It's been my experience that MANY music teachers will sit you down with "Mel Bay's Modern Guitar Method" (or the equivalent for other instruments including voice) and...well...that's it. They really have no interest in the students personal interests or goals...it's just an assembly line to them. Most people who take lessons of this nature -will- take longer and develop slower as a musician...regardless of their instrument...than a person who has a really good teacher who is truly capable of working with a student and really teaching them. Again though....in regards to the student at least, this has NOTHING to do with talent.




Again with VERY rare exceptions, I honestly don't believe there is really such a thing as "talent". Let's use another analogy here...I consider myself to be pretty decent working with "tools". I fix the family car when it breaks, I do my own home improvements and at the very least, I know which end of a screw driver I'm supposed to hold. Does this mean I'm "mechanically inclined" or does it mean I grew up in a rather poor household where if something broke, my dad had to fix it himself because he couldn't afford to hire someone to do it for him? Seriously...if the toilet broke in the middle of the night, we couldn't afford to call a plumber...Dad and I fixed it ourselves. I knew how to do everything from 110 electrical to basic plumbing by the time I was 10 years old! Now let's say that a kid grew up in a more well to do family where they always hired people to do these things for them...is that person really going to know a socket from a combination wrench when they grow up? Is it because they don't have any talent at this or simply because they never had any exposure to it?

Conversely, let's say a child who grew up in that well to do house was always told "don't touch that screw driver...you'll hurt yourself!"...wouldn't such a thing be counter productive towards a person's confidence in such things? Again though does this remotely mean that said person is untalented or simply that they were discouraged from doing something?

Yes...some people do learn things faster than others. Yes, some people are simply smarter than others and yes, some people are more willing to apply themselves than others. But talent? I really just don't think so.

Now in the case of singers specifically I do think there is another factor to consider. I think it's safe to say that a good many of us grew up "singing a long" with our favorite music. In many cases we're taught this as very young children...remember "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star"? Ever sing it when you were a kid? Now in a house where things like this were encouraged, a person may grow up being a little better at it than someone who was always told to "shut up and do your home work". Still, unlike a musical instrument such as a guitar or even things such as auto repair, MANY of us had some degree of exposure to singing as children and as such many of us may seem "more talented" at singing than with other things...but again this isn't really a matter of "talent" now is it?

To say that "so and so is naturally good at this or that" (i.e. talented) doesn't really take all of the variables in to account. What kind of exposure and/or related training has the person had in the past? How much do they want to do that certain something? What about the society and culture they grew up in? I can't say that an idea such as talent has absolutely nothing to do with genetics...I really don't know that for sure. I will say that as of now at least there's absolutely no way to make definitive measurements in this regard...you can't take a new born baby and plug them in to a USB port and say "Oh...this kid's got the talent to be a guitar player". At this point at least, it's not something that can be substantially measured. More over, I think that there are more important factors that over-ride this in any case to the point of making it a very insignificant issue even -if- it is real. Again this is JUST MY OPINION but I honestly believe that "talent" is nothing more than an excuse for some people..."Oh...I just can't do it because I'm not talented". Be it singing, playing guitar (or any other instrument) or even photography or working on a car, I think that passion, desire, environment and even necessity are considerably greater factors than talent ever could be.


Anyways, again just my own personal opinions here...please consider them for what they are worth.

Jim

Jes....some mega-long replies here.

I can just sing and could always just sing and I sing professionally. If I didn't need to spend years training myself then thats hardly my fault.

[edit] And the balls come from simply having balls, the same balls it takes if you are playing guitar in front of 1,000 or more people, the same balls.

CC

_________________
Fender Stratocaster (parts build)
Fender Telecaster 72 Custom RI
Fender Telecoustic Deluxe
Gretsch Electromatic Pro-Jet
Gibson Les Paul Standard Plus
Gibson ES-135
Zenith Type-17
Marshall 70's JMP Superbass 100w
Blackstar HT-5

I soppose your right, a child with the right conditioning will learn better than that of a child who doesent.

And as for your what you said about the singing, the people who are "Talented" can pull it off but only in certain conditions, thats why most the X-factor winners release an album then are forgotten about since they can only make the same thing.

Also, I cant do with the long messages!

_________________
"Oh, it's a windy and sunny day
And I can hear the faint sound of distant waves
The past weeks have been going by so fast
It's all the same, the bright sky and shining sun
I have a feeling it's gonna be a fun day"

Very true. I hate that X-Factor pi5h.

I could always sing and was never taught, just like my guitar playing. I learned through being in bands, being on the road etc. In practical situations void of theory. I was always good at it. Plus I write my own stuff and can cross genre easily so I'm no one trick pony either.

CC

_________________
Fender Stratocaster (parts build)
Fender Telecaster 72 Custom RI
Fender Telecoustic Deluxe
Gretsch Electromatic Pro-Jet
Gibson Les Paul Standard Plus
Gibson ES-135
Zenith Type-17
Marshall 70's JMP Superbass 100w
Blackstar HT-5