Purple

Thats nothing us english folk didnt know already.

Why do I love fender?

I get the best quality for price and years of history behind the instrument. I dont really care about Gibson making acoustics in the 30's or whenever. I owned a acoustic once for a month. I play electric guitar, theres only realy one firm to buy from that offer what I want.

Who cares about tradition and history when theres rockin to be done?

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No no and no

Thick!? Maybe a little. Xenophopic?! Not at all. I'm just sort of typically USA-centric (not an excuse, just a fact). I know Madagascar is an island but I have no idea of it's size in relation to other islands.

I also never claimed that "tree pirates" don't exist, I merely said that they should be Madagascar's problem to police not the FBI's. If the Government of Madagascar is so danged concerned about the theft of it's wood then they need to defend it.

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"Life is like eating jalapenos. What you do today may burn your arse tomorrow"

I think it's great that people here are environmentaly conscious- yet it saddens me that there are some that aren't.


I have no problem buying something with brazilian- the only thing is that it would have to be recycled. No way will it be new, and so to other endangered timbers. Cant let it go to scrap now can we?

In the upper North Island, there is a species known as Agathis Australis (known as Kauri)
These trees are just massive, and that's an understatement. Trunks can get up to 16metres in girth- the largest ever found was 26metres. age can range to over 1000 yrs old.

A luthier uses timber from these trees and makes beautiful instruments- though the trunks are retrived from peat- in which they have to be excavated.

check it out:

http://www.guitars.co.nz/instruments.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agathis_australis

Legend has it- in the 1800's a guy decided he would climb one of these, he did it alone and he had a rope and all- stupid thing was he never told anyone he was going to do it.
Cut a long story short- when he reached the top, his rope fell and he had no way of getting back down. No-one knew where he was and he was pressumed missing.
in the 70's, someone climbed the tree and discovered his remains at the top- his shoes were still up there!

Now you cannot replace something that old, and that magnificent in just a few years If anyone of you guys come to NZ- there is a forest full of them, and walking through it is amazing- the trunks are impressive and yet erie. I urge anyone to visit them

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You just dont get it do you mate. Its a GLOBAL i.e worldwide problem. Not just an african problem. The original thread points out that the illegal activities go by the way of Germany of all places before they land on your shores.
Now I'm not too good at geography but I'll bet a weeks wage on Madagascar being nearer Nashville than Dusseldorf is.
I didnt call you thick. I know your not, anyone with half a brain can see by your writing that your capable of thought.

As for being USA-centric as you call it. Maybe you dont see it, but the rest of the world does. Particularly in this day and age of borderless countries. Its very much a seat or a seed of xenophobia. Theres a difference between patriotism and ignorance. Something a lot of people dont understand. In this country fly a st George cross on April 23rd these days and you get called a racist. Primarily because of far right political groups adopting it as their banner. Its something you have to keep in check, whatever our intentions its a sad fact that others perceptions condemn us.

These tree's are being felled for exactly the same reason that Afghanistan exports heroin. Because we buy it. Its no less illegal, its no more moral. As far as the 'let their goverment worry about it' stance. Maybe if our countries hadnt strip mined and plundered certain area's of the world, bringing certain countries to the brink of bankrupcy. Then we could take that attitude. The fact is that our nations owe that area of the world more than we can comprehend. Maybe not Madagascar directly, but Africa definately.

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No no and no

Niki, I know you English are very aware of the phenomenon, I just thought it might provide a perspective for others as well.
Looking at the specs and doing the math, Fender is by far the best value for money company, in all price ranges imo.
I love their products, I totally respect and feel inspired by their history and attitude.
Which is something I definitely cannot say about the likes of Gibson, even though growing up my personal heroes were Pagey and Angus Young.
I have no Gibson or Epiphone and no intention to buy any, there's plenty of choice out there of similar or better products.

As for the debt we all owe to the rest of the world, especially Africa, I can't agree more.
We choose to aknowledge it or not, we live in a small world, totally interconected, where everything is affecting everybody.
Loving one's country is absolutely commendable, totally ignoring the rest of the world, or looking down on them, it's a whole different story.
And hey, what goes around, does come around, eventually.

I must commend you Jay for taking your stance on the topic

I dont want to be stereotypical, but the overall view from the world with regard to climate & environmental problems is that everyone but the USA and China and also a couple of other fast developing countries want to sweep it under the mat. I guess it would come down to the media for portraying it that way too.

But you friend have proved me otherwise Good for you...


As for others not 'giving a rats arse' about the situation, I guess im probably the typical kiwi that you dont really want to mess with on this matter. Our country leads by example, there is a reason why NZ has the reputation that we have, we take our natural heritage & anti-nuclear policies very seriously- all of our native forests & bush are protected by some very stiff legislation- in which if anyone breaks these laws, the conservation dept. will make you pay dearly...

On the topic of Germany, a German man has been detained here for trying to smuggle geckos and skinks... the fines are worth 100,000NZD a piece and a lengthy jail term- with complimentary gang member for a room mate... good job.

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Hi guys: I have no interest at all in a personal row and what I have to say is absolutely NOT pointed at anyone in particular on this thread.

After all, to make progress on the environment we need to engage people's enthusiasm, not brow-beat them.

I have noticed however that there is ignorance on many sides on this subject. People often enjoy talking down to the United States over the environment, and it is true they use vastly more resources per capita than anyone else and their Federal Government has been and still is tardy to say the least on the international aspects of the thing.

And yet those who criticise are often as uninformed as those they think they are admonishing. When you visit America you discover it is nothing like its stereotype abroad. I find plenty of serious awareness there - a tiny example would be that my relatives in Boston were into household recycling well before we were where I live. People who only know America from their TV news often don't understand how much State government does in place of National government.

We get smug about what fine targets we are setting in my country, and yet when I visit, say, Germany, Austria and Scandinavia I find them miles ahead in every way. Sweden for example is on track to have converted its entire economy to use zero fossil fuels within a handful of years. Wow!

Yet even that is not ecologically ideal - it obviously involves huge use of bioethanol, which carries its own major environmental costs (making and transporting it, and cutting down forest for land to produce it).

None of us is doing so well we can lecture others. We need to realise we are all on the same side and urgently need to go forwards together.

And one tiny way is to use Fender guitars - which employ less in the way of tropical hardwoods than most others and which should (should) be able to be produced from verifiable timber from managed sources. How much that happens in real life is a question we should be putting to them, as loyal users of their product.

Cheers - C