Federal Agents raid Gibson Guitars

Twelvebar · **Posted:** Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:18 pm

BigJay, I would imagine this is all b ein g done under the Lacey Act. Which is your countries' law involving import of illegal/endangered wildlife (both fauna and flora.)

Seizing goods from consumers seems unlikely (though somewhat possible,) under the purview of that act.

Most likely would be fines for the company, and possible jail time for some of its executives if enough evidence is found to warrant it.

Keep in mind, the company can face large fines even if they unknowingly imported prohibited woods, and even if they practiced 'due care' the product itself can be seized.

straycat113 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:28 pm

It just dawned on me that last week Michelle Obama gave the president of Frances wife a Gibson guitar as a gift. Now this week the Feds raid Gibson. Maybe she liked Fenders.

walker.rocker12 · **Joined:** Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:27 am **Posts:** 54

i dont think anyone has anything to worry about. rosewood itself is not illegal to own therefore anyone who owns a gibson with the rosewood in question does not own anything illegal. The issue is whether or not gibson purchased it from a sketchy source. There is no way that the government is going to force a recall on wood that is not illegal to own.

Twelvebar · **Posted:** Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:29 pm

BigJay wrote:

Twelvebar wrote:

BigJay, I would imagine this is all b ein g done under the Lacey Act. Which is your countries' law involving import of illegal/endangered wildlife (both fauna and flora.)

Seizing goods from consumers seems unlikely (though somewhat possible,) under the purview of that act.

Most likely would be fines for the company, and possible jail time for some of its executives if enough evidence is found to warrant it.

Keep in mind, the company can face large fines even if they unknowingly imported prohibited woods, and even if they practiced 'due care' the product itself can be seized.

I dont necessarily care to argue the point. Im not advocating Government confiscate guitars or predicting it will certainly happen. I simply am pointing out that in this country, its illegal to own illegal property, even if obtained under the guise of legality. Its not different than possessing stolen property. You arent allowed to keep it. To this end, its not the Lacey Act that could drive a potential movement to collect the guitars, but rather other law barring the ownership of illegally obtained property.

Again, who knows for sure? Its more interesting than my work right now.

I don't wanna argue either, at least in the pick sides and fight way. But I am also interested in what could happen. I was just trying to find out what you thought about that stuff. Arguing in the 'throw some other ideas out there and discuss possible implications' kind of arguing can be great fun.

Ths could get very messy, and thus very interesting to watch.

Twelvebar · **Posted:** Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:00 pm

BigJay wrote:

I understand, Twelvebar. I wasnt under the impression you were being argumentative, but I wanted to make sure everydody understands that Im not trying to make a bid deal out any of this either.

It is fascinating to watch and discuss. Im very curious to see what happens. Even more curious to see if any of my speculations are even remotely accurate!!!

I do know one thing, however. When 50+ Federal Agents raid an establishment, its not just a simple and minor event. Working in the investment banking industry, I've been the subject of Federal investigations into conduct, regulatory compliance and legality. I've personally witnessed Federal raids on collapsing investment banks. They literally swoop in, with squadcars and guns, escort everybody out (even by force), and literally chain the doors closed before they shake the place down. Its really freaky and nerve-racking.

Scary stuff. I agree if they actually came in and raided and seized material and info, rather than request cooperation then I would guess this is pretty severe. The wording of the article leads me to believe that the gov't might think Gibson was actively trying to skirt the system rather than an unwitting victim of someone else's chicanery.

nikininja · **Posted:** Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:02 pm

Theres a very easy out. Just tell em you had the fretboard changed. Let them prove that the piece of rosewood on the guitar is still the same piece it originaly came with. Before you even let them see your guitar ask to see reasonable evidence that your guitar was one of the ones built using the illegal wood.

If you got 50,000 les paul owners saying that then its highly unlikely that the goverment would pay to send out a load of timber experts to analyze the wood on a load of gibbo's.

If I were in that possition I'd make life incredibly hard for any official. It could easily pass the point of reasonable cost to investigate. The whole of the uk traffic laws are failing primarily for that reason. As soon as you ask for photographic evidence, documentation of training to run equiptment, police vehicle check certificates and such like. The authorities give up and let you off with a warning 9/10. The £60 speeding fine just isnt going to pay the man hours in providing you with their evidence, which your entitiled to see.

nikininja · **Posted:** Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm

ok thats my next business venture. Making and exporting bog seats. Does any US citizen want to handle the intricacies of my 'Made to Measure' policy?

Honestly we wont publish the measurments :lol:

Randy1 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:45 am

Oh no, I think Im blind after seeing that pic. :shock:

cvilleira · **Posted:** Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:10 am

bluesguitar65 wrote:

BigJay wrote:

bluesguitar65 wrote:

So the owners of Gibson guitars who have registered their guitars will be informed that they will have to give up thier guitars to the authorities becuase it may have illegal woods? Man, if you happen to collect gibson instruments that would be one costly consequence. That does not sound right at all. Well, so much for registering your guitars.

Hence the potential for a class action lawsuit against Gibson by a group of unhappy former Gibson owners.

I'll add that Im speculating here. Gibson hasnt been charged with any wrongdoing that we are aware of yet. Further, they have not been convicted of anything yet. So, theres no need to hire a lawyer yet or bury your guitar. There is not reason to ship your bong to your girlfriends house because youre afraid Federal agents are about to pound on your door.

If Gibson is found guilty of this, and if the authorities decide to pursue the matter down to consumers who may have bought such guitars, it likely Gibson will issue a recall/product replacement of some sort as part of a plea agreement with the plaintiff class.

A recall and "product replacement" in that magnitude will surely mean the down fall of Gibson...I really doubt that Gibson will survive and maybe forced to close down when all is settled. It will be an end of an era as we know it.

A recall would never happen it is not like a product that is a danger to the consumer. The consumer was not defrauded into buying a product that was made of the materials not stated. ( not real Maple or Mahogany ect.)
The thought of a recall is laughable.

mthorn00 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:27 am

With all the issues facing us in the world right now, I find it amusing that people still find time to be outraged over a goddamn tree.

	Page 4 of 8	[ 113 posts ]	Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 Next
Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 Next

	Page 4 of 8	[ 113 posts ]	Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 Next
Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 Next

Andorra	EN	ES	FR
Belgium	EN	DE	FR
Croatia	EN
Czech Republic	EN
Estonia	EN
France	EN	FR
Germany	EN	DE
Italy	EN	IT
Latvia	EN
Lithuania	EN
Malta	EN
Netherlands	EN
Poland	EN
Romania	EN
Slovakia	EN
Sweden	EN
United Kingdom	EN

Austria	EN	DE
Bulgaria	EN
Cyprus	EN
Denmark	EN
Finland	EN
Greece	EN
Hungary	EN
Ireland	EN
Liechtenstein	EN	DE
Luxembourg	EN	DE	FR
Monaco	EN	FR
Norway	EN
Portugal	EN
Slovenia	EN
Spain	EN	ES
Switzerland	EN	DE	FR	IT

Mod Shop

Custom Shop

Federal Agents raid Gibson Guitars

Who is online