The whole problem with modern warfare is that we are trying to make it nice. Tv friendly so's not to upsett voters. The only real chance for peace in the middle east is a complete war of attrition, total subjugation of the area and for it to become another state of america, much as we did in times past with the empire. Your talking about waiting for a chance for peace in a area of the world that has never known peace in 9000 years.

If Obama wants to wait for a chance for peace he needs to pull out now. A constant foreign military presence in a country a lot more used to scrapping bigger opponents is going to eventually decimate our forces and demoralize troops whilst our leaders wipe each others arses.

Sounds like a Vietnam waiting to unfold to me, cept we haven't got a leader with the balls to unleash the full might of their military.

Even doing that is going to acheive little. This is going to last for the next thousand years no trouble. The middle east still hasnt forgiven Britan for the Crusades. Their not scarred of the big boys and this constant ramming of a stick into a wasps nest is going to get us hurt. Our only chance is to set fire to the wasps nest now.

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No no and no

Solid Body Love Songs

It would be easy and would have been over by now if they were facing us and we were facing them. It's more along the lines of the enemy is facing us but is hidden from our sight and we can only discover their presence through recon, unmanned aircraft, GPS, and inside information. The enemy looks, speaks, and acts like an ordinary civilian, do you just pull the trigger and hope you made the right choice? And yeah if it's any consolation, I wouldn't trust me too much either, for one I prefer hand to hand combat and two I could not kill another man unless he has committed himself to killing me or my family.

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I traded my car in for a microphone.

Yeah, Niki, but we're trapped in our own B.S. X-ian image.
"We're here to help!".

Yeah, right.

Saddam was minding the gates of hell for us, and doing it for free. Now,
after our investment (and vanity) it's hard to bail. Eventually we will
declare victory and do just that.

the alqaeda were funded by and started by the good ol cia. to help fight the russians.
the ira were were also part funded by the usa.
saddam hussien was funded by usa.
hitler was funded by the city of london and wall st, also through mass investment by the prescott bush and the rockerfellas. he was aloud to come to power because a war was excatly what they wanted. WAR IS BUISNESS QUITE SIMPLY, in fact bush has made alot of money through the bin-laden family. through oil. george bushes oil company made millions from entering afganastan and still is.

ive read poppy export has doubled since they went to afganastan by the way, thats the cia (cocaine import agency) for ya.!

i really do feel for our soldiers i really do. i feel more for the afgan and iraq people, as our television is so censored in the west, i dont think the masses know what real war looks like. a soldier who looses a leg comes back as a hero with a lifetime of support, as they should! but a local who loses a limb is buggerd well and truly, and most start a life of begging on the streets

the usa/uk/west/whiteman has killed and maimed and slaughterd more people than any other, and lets not forget that. the usa have bombed more countries than anyone else. please listen to roy harpers "i hate the white man" brilliant song!! sums it up great.


obama is not the answer to the worlds problems! hes just another puppet.

in an ideal world our kids wouldnt think joining the army was cool and a good way to see the world. so then if our leaders wanna play there games, they would have to do it themselfs. and we would have mass world disarment, soldiers who have been brainwashed to kill at the drop of a word have to do some mushys in the forest and dance happily through the medows untill the love comes back man... just kiddin, but seriously the world is a fuxx%d up place thats corrupt to the core and nothins black and white. i dont have the anwer, but what i truly belive is that humans are natrualy loving creatures, no one wants war, or a fight or trouble, the only people who do, are the corrupted/controlled/brainwashed/abused. there my thoughts anyway...

you just moved up a notch Bro, you may turn out OK after all.

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you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.

What can Obama do? Well listen to the people who lead the Military on what can be done. Who out of them has the experience of combat situations and spent there lives in the study of it? Obama or the people in the uniforms?
And he Taliban was not created by the CIA they were trained and funded by Pakistan I think some are getting them mixed up with the Mujahideen that was CIA back to fight the the Soviets. The Taliban come into the being doing the Clinton administration which ignored the area while the Taliban forced Sharia law onto the population. A backwards way of life where woman are nothing and yes against music!

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

I am sitting at my computer eating a bowl of cereal reading this thread....

I do not know exactly who to thank for my freedoms but I do know that there have been tens of thousands of men and women who have fought and died in many battles and many wars all over the world - so I can sit and eat a bowl of cereal and read this thread......

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I Can't Explain

I'm not listening to any song called 'I Hate The White Man", sorry, Louis.
But, Daddy Bush was at a conference with the bin Ladens on 9.11.01.
Not that that is incriminating, but it is odd that few know about it. Or the way these families have blended their interests in business.

The main thing that bothers me is that we have taken on a country that
was not involved in 9.11 in any known way. What if we invaded China
after Pearl Harbor? Wouldn't everyone want to know WHY?

Only Western Civ ships food and medicine to the rest of the world, tries
to protect a environments and RESTORES polluted areas, strives to see
that animals are not subjected to cruelty, and so on.
But the good don't run for public office, for some reason.

not sure what this is about Taurus, rumors, one I've heard is the top Luftwaffe pilots and top RAF pilots knew one another probably competitively which didn't make much difference when that bastard shot himself in the head in his own bunker.

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you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.

Taurus

You dont want to discount Roy Harper mate. He's a class act in the british folk scene.

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No no and no

Niki, self-loathing is not called for. And really, if the white man is so bad,
why do 3rd world-ers risk it all to get next to him?
I was told in Britain there are 301 languages spoken in the public schools.

Still, if they hate us, it sure aint 'cause of our freedom. Nope, we keep messing with them because they aren't aligned with anyone, any super power or nuclear armed protective nation. I'm not a humanitarian. I'm
not gonna miss any one we've vaporized. They say freedom isn't free,
but neither is war.

A recession followed Viet Nam. A recession may follow Iraq & Afghanistan.
But we're in a recession now, so, what will this mean? America's maxxed out credit may not get paid off.

Have a Cadbury, man.

Taurus mate i'm just telling you that you may enjoy Harper. His work with Jimmy Page is about as close to zep as I can listen to.

Your absolutely right about the UK. Immigration has got completely out of control now. Infact its at the point that we need to vote neo nazi party the Bnp in to get it sorted, then worry about dealing with their crazy racist policies afterwards. Still far right goverment never hurt France did it, their out of reccession now.

Its absolutely crazy here. I have had to live on savings for over a year now, thankfully I'm a workaholic and have been able to do it ok. All because of the state of our construction industry. I've earnt just over £1500 this year. That was 2 days wage june last year. Theirs a oil refinery being built 20 miles from me. The site has 300 skilled workers, Ucatt had to threaten our goverment with legal action to get any English workers onto that site. The French/Italian construction company incharge had specified all eastern european labour. Ucatt got that changed in march to 50/50 european to english skilled workers in May. Now they are laying off 160 workers all English. To put this in perspective English and Irish construction workers have a much deserved reputation world wide as being creme of the crop. The Woolworths and Empire state towers were both designed by british architects. Pretty much all modern skyscraper design is based on the same principles those two were built using. Now our managment overloading goverment has decided theres no place for skilled tradespeople in England. Have spent the last 15 years trying to deprive us of the right to be self employed. Constantly moved goalposts regarding qualifications too. I was making cast plaster ceiling roses when I was 10, I learnt to make plaster moulds when I was 12. When I was 15 I learnt to make coving and the infinately more difficult cornice on the ceiling that had to have the feature. I completed my city in guilds apprenticship in plastering and another in carpentry when I was 19. The minimum term for both classes was three years. Last year I was told my City In Guilds wasnt good enough, that I had to have a NVQ (national vocational qualification). To qualify for this a guy came out to site, took pictures of me stood next to someone elses work and said I'd done it. All because I'd paid £250 to get on the program and they didnt want any failiures. The company at the time wanted my skills for frame construction, which only covered 20% of my qualification.

Were quickly becoming a absolute joke of a country thats going down fast. We used to be a country of diversety, where many types of people could co-exist and form strong communities. Sadly with our polliticaly correct/europe weak goverments opening of the nations borders thats not the case any more. Racial tension is very much on the rise, theres outbreaks of violence every week somewhere. All because our goverment is too busy fudging their expense claims to be able to manage a piss up in a brewery.

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No no and no

Wow, Niki, there's so much wrong with this picture, I don't know where to
begin. But I follow events over there, more so than any American, I know.
I read the BNP has been ordered to allow non-Brits into the party. The reason? To dilute and confuse, of course. That is, Brits are not allowed to form guilds the way non-Brits are. That is, outsiders have greater access
than those who pay the bills.
I know in France Brigitte Bardot was jailed for complaining that sheep were
being slaughtered in residential gardens during Ramadan. BARDOT!!!!!

This is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Over here, the GOP just allowed obama to place a marxist on our Supreme
Court, with no mention of her affiliations. Which are pretty anti-american.

I don't see this being solved in an orderly manner, Niki.

Its just spineless pandering to other nations thats getting our country into more and more trouble. Dont get me wrong, I'm no racist. The way our government opened the borders has caused a major backlash. If they had instigated a sensible immigration policy for european residents non of this would have occured. I strongly believe it was set up this way to give rise to a far right party thus taking votes from a normal rightwing, more tolerant party. Thus keeping the left in power longer.

Now the tolerant right (conservative party) are saying there will be no referendum on our membership to europe. Thus splitting their own vote further. I cant see them getting in next election. They have no policy different to our current leftwing government. Just more spineless sycophantic vapid politics by popularity contest. Its a real shame, the multicultural society we've built since 1920 is about to be destroyed because were desperately in need of a leader that is strong enough to lead through hard decisions. Rather than just avoiding them. Lets not forget our current idiot is un-elected, what kind of freedom or democracy is that?

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No no and no

Another great line from our current clown. Something along the lines of, "You should all trust and support me. I was chancellor of the exchequer, if anyone can get us through this reccession I can".

Then he went and sold the bank of englands gold reserves at the lowest price gold hit.

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No no and no