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Post subject: trying to fine tune the strings
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:53 pm
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I'm not sure if this is the right forum. I have a question about a Squier specifically but it may not necessarily be unique to that model.

I have a super old squier I bought close to 20 years ago. I got an electronic tuner recently and noticed as I went up the frets, the guitar didn't stay in tune. Figuring that I needed to re-adjust the bridge/string length I tried to re-tune but when I got it to where the open note was the same as the 12th fret, the note on the third fret was always out of tune. It's almost like the third fret isn't in the right position relative to the neck. Is this possible or likely or am I just doing somthing wrong?


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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:07 pm
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The guitar is a instrument that is never perfectly in tune.
Especialy around the nut. Is the neck relief adjusted correctly ?
What do you mean with 3rd fret notes out of tune,with what other notes
are they out of tune,the G-chord ?
Also, are the frets level or are they grooved ?


Last edited by lostindesert on Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:42 pm
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LID is probably right. Make sure the neck relief is correct, then set the intonation.


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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:18 am
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Get a strobe tuner and intonate your guitar. You can get a Petersen strobe for under 200. It is tough to intonate without the strobe.


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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:14 am
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As others have said, this may be to worn frets or incorrect neck setup.
is the 3rd fret coming out sharp (high) or flat (low)??

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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:56 am
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k, here's the deal.

Guitars are never going to be perfectly in tune. No matter if the relief on the neck is perfect and the intonation is set with the most expensive Peterson strobe tuner that money can buy. It will NEVER be perfectly in tune.

This is due to something that is called "equal temperament." Equal Temperament is (without going into a whole diatribe about it) is what is considered the modern way that music is heard on tuned instruments (and believe me it goes MUCH deeper than this). Essentially what happens is certain intervals (in this example the intervals are differentiated by the frets) are altered just enough to make other intervals sound "better." So although your fifths may sound perfectly in tune, your minor third will be off by quite a few cents. Fretboards are an approximation. There's a guy-- whose name I can't remember-- who built a guitar where each note has its own specific individual fret perfectly in place.
Bottom line is that our ears are trained dialed into equal temperament. Don't worry about every note being perfectly in tune... to be honest, it would sound terrible... :P


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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:22 pm
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Thanks for the input. Unfortunately you guys are obviously much more experienced and knowlegeable than me. For example, I'm not sure what a neck relief is, much less know if it is adjusted properly.

What I've done is tune the guitar with the strings open. I noticed when I play certain chords (a G for example) it doesn't sound quite right. What I then did was put my electronic tuner back on and play a "G" on both "E" strings to see where it came out. On both strings the note was right between a pure "G" and a pure "G#". On some chords (like an "A") it seems to sound OK.

When I do this same test on my Yamaha acoustic, both strings play protty close to a pure "G" which is why I thought the Squire would be the same.

If it's not too complicated, how do I make sure the neck relief is good?

I


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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:38 pm
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If you place a finger of your left hand on the first fret low E string and then with the pinky finger of your right hand, fret the low E on or around the 16th fret (both at the same time) your creating a straight edge with which you can measure the "relief" (forward bow) in your neck. This is where it gets a little tricky. A trained tech can measure 1000's of an inch with the naked eye fairly accurately. With your index finger (or thumb) of your right hand, stretch out to the 7th fret (approx) and push the low E string down to the neck. How far does it travel? It should travel around 8-15 thousandths of an inch depending. Usually set it for about 12. Take your index finger (or thumb) off of the string. Now, how to measure it... try sliding a standard business card between the top of the 7th fret and the bottom of the non depressed string. (aha.... use a capo at the first fret... makes it easier considering most of us don't have a third hand) If the string does not touch the card, there's probably too much relief in the neck. Turn the truss rod a quarter turn (carefully) and repeat. The string should barely touch the card and your relief is relatively in the right spot. Now the other thing that you'll need to check is your nut slots. It sounds to me like they are not deep enough which would cause the strings to be out of tune closer to the nut because they have to move further to reach the fret. For this, take it to a repairman. They'll know what to do if you tell them that you think the nut slots are too high. Good Luck!


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