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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:02 am
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JuiceDaddy wrote:
Well, I do some writing. Over the last couple of months, it's starting to take off on me. I've had a few songs that I'm really proud of, and of course I have several others that are excuses to wank on my Strat.

I don't think I'll ever get signed, but there's a great amount of satisfaction that comes from singing my own stories/thoughts/feelings.


Mark, I've heard your songs and you'll well on your way.

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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:28 am
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Tony,
How did you go about getting your songs out? Oh yeah any plans to visit the DC area in the future?


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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:22 pm
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chris63 wrote:
Tony,
How did you go about getting your songs out? Oh yeah any plans to visit the DC area in the future?


I formed my own publishing company 'T-Notes Music', and with my contacts in the blues world, send demos of my songs to various blues labels.

Believe it or not, there are still artists that don't write and some labels will accept songs.

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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:37 pm
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Do you get your stuff copyrited first?


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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:28 pm
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chris63 wrote:
Do you get your stuff copyrited first?


Oh heck yeah! I found out years ago that you could copyright a collection of songs as a anthology. Than when you record them, or someone else does, than you have to copyright each song individually.

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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:53 pm
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i just wrote a great song a few days ago im pretty excited 4 thursday so i can get a chance 2 play it with the band


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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:34 am
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AustinW wrote:
i just wrote a great song a few days ago im pretty excited 4 thursday so i can get a chance 2 play it with the band


I love playing my songs in front of people, and having them like my songs.

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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:51 pm
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i'll join!


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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:23 pm
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i enjoy writing, though i don't really have a formula. generally, i'll marriage a poem i've written with a riff i liked. both tend to flow independantly; i rarely think about the music from a theory and form standpoint. just usually mess around until i hear something i like for whatever reason, then run with it.

personally, i view songs the same way i do poetry: if someone writes something as a form of expression, then it can't be deemed good or bad, because it doesn't matter. the work is only truly important to that individual, therefore if the artist feels satisfied with their work, the piece has served its purpose. noone else has the right to judge the quality of another's emotional artwork.

the point is, i don't think anyone who writes should ever be ashamed of their work because they're worried about what everyone else is going to think about it. that's just my standpoint on it.

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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:58 am
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Over the last 18 months or so I have written lyrics to about 15 songs. Don't have the music to go with them , (other than whats in my head), I am really proud of most of them, some are rubbish, but for the most part really ggod. And the great thing about them is that they are mine and no one can ever take them or the experience of writing them away.


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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:39 am
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stokes wrote:
personally, i view songs the same way i do poetry: if someone writes something as a form of expression, then it can't be deemed good or bad, because it doesn't matter. the work is only truly important to that individual, therefore if the artist feels satisfied with their work, the piece has served its purpose. noone else has the right to judge the quality of another's emotional artwork.


Actually, if you dare to play it in public, then EVERYBODY who hears it has the right to judge it.

And the craft of songwriting CAN be judged on its artistic merits. Anybody can puke up an emotional tantrum, but turning that into art requires skill and cunning. If you can't or simply won't apply craftsmanship to your work, then what you write will be crap whether you feel it expresses your inner self or not.

Obviously, you're entitled to your opinion, just as I am, but I can tell you two definite facts that transcend opinion. The first is: Jimmy Webb, Johnny Mercer, Donald Fagen, Randy Newman, etc. - the true songwriters of the pop era - don't write by layering their poetry over some riffs. The second is: if you maintain your belief about the untouchability of "emotional art," you will never write a really good song. A really good song marries lyric and melody in a intertwined, unbreakable manner; the melody and the words become one unit, one permanent thing.

I don't mean this to sound harsh, because that's not my intention - I'm simply telling you the truth about songwriting as I know it.


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Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:22 am
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if your goal is pop success, then yes, what others think of your songs is very important, because then you've included the public into the intention of the song. if you subject someone to listening to your music, then of course they have the right to judge it because you're in essence asking for they're opinion.

but that's not what i'm referring to. i'm referring to the art of songwriting on a personal level. success is truly an individual thing.

besides that, we're talking about an art here. there are no rules. what characteristics make a "good song"? simple, catchy lyrics? lyrics that tell a story that pertains to the listener's life so they can relate to it? or ones full of allusion and metaphors that one has to sit down and ponder before they truly understand them? does it need to be morally sound? or writing about sex and drugs better? does the music need to be complex and require a great amount of ability to play? or will a I V iv IV progression suffice?

example: "bohemian rhapsody." considered by many to be a great song for various reasons, largely having to do with it's musical complexity. it's broken down into four movements essentially, complete with difficult instrumental and vocal parts, as well as awkward meter changes.

at the other end of the spectrum, take bob dylan's "forever young." a musically simple song, using basic open chords in standard progressions. the lyrics are very touching, easy to follow and understand, and generally it's very hard to hate this song. even if you hate to hear bob dylan's voice, the song has been covered by a wide variety of artists.

songwriting, like any other art, is something that everyone can take part in. there are no set guidelines. yes, many songs may be considered by people as crap, but consider how much "crap" gets published by studios as well as tossed in the trash can by artists.

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Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:42 am
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I don't think you understand what I mean by craftsmanship.

Study the way lyric and melody wrk together in songs by some of the people I mentioned... Johnny Mercer's "Charade" is virtually perfect, as is Arthur Hamilton's "Cry Me A River." Learn some songs by Donald Fagen and Randy Newman, study how Joni Mitchell weaves her hard-won stream of consciousness through those Ouija-board melodies. CHeck out Ben Folds and his uncanny ability to reclaim pop conventions and make them breathe again. You want power from simple chords? Listen to a killer song like Nanci Griffith's "It's A Hard Life Wherever You Go" and then tell me if Dylan's wimpy platitudes still seem as strong.

My point? Sure, anybody can participate in songwriting, just like anybody can pick up some oil paints and learn how to paint happy little trees. But real songwriting, real craft, real power is the same as anything... it takes talent AND discipline to make it real. You can conceptualize til doomsday, but everything depends on execution.

No, there's no dumb criteria like "it has to be musically complex." What it has to be is artful. Skilled. The product of intelligence put to work.


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Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:11 pm
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i'm not saying that it doesn't require work to create a powerful song that impacts the world.

what i am saying is that "art" is completely opinion based. what one person considers to be a good song for whatever reason or lack there of may be a terrible song to someone else.

for instance, i think that bruce springsteen and bob dylan are both very good songwriters. i know several people that disagree. there's no way to argue on either side, since it's all preference.

music, and consequently songwriting, is a living art. not just a product. it's all open to interpretation and revision every second of every day. the idea that you shouldn't write songs if you're not "talented" and don't posses the ability and work ethic to write something that enough people would like to be considered a "great song" i believe discourages people from trying it out. it's an intimidating concept. very rarely do artists make it big off the first song they wrote anyway.

i'm no springsteen, and maybe i never will be. but i'll continue to write regardless of what someone tells me, even if i'm the only one that listens to my songs, because i write for me, and noone else. it helps me relax, and i encourage anyone to try their hand at it. yes, it's important to study other songwriters if you want the same kind of success, but not everyone's goals are the same, and noone has the right to judge someone else's idea of success.

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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:24 am
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I ran accross a site that has great tips on songwriting 'Addicted to Songwriting' http://www.addicted-to-songwriting.com/.

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