To me, the most important part of the article is this:

‘Guitar Center has conspired with NAMM to control prices and exclude or destroy competition in the relevant markets and engaged in other acts with the specific interest to achieve monopoly power in the relevant product market.’ Although listed as a defendant in the action, Fender is not otherwise mentioned in the 20-page document.

I can easily see GC in monopolistic pursuits. The sales pressure when you're there is pretty heavy, and when they hit a town they have the "wal-mart" effect of wiping out the little stores.

Fender was named in the suit as a defendant one time, and than not mentioned again. This is like a dram shop law where they name every bar or restaurant that a drunk driver may have stopped at in a night before he had an accident while driving under the influence. Guilt by association, more or less.

Slap chop...you're a republican aren't you? Sorry...never mind.




I would debate this in regards to another monopoly law suit that went down a few years ago...Microsoft. For instance, the MS OS wasn't the -only- operating system out there to be sure...people could just as easily buy a Mac or use Linux or something else on their PCs. However, there was more to it than just that...considerably more. I think there was more than sufficient proof in that case that MS and even Intel were both guilty of monopolizing the industry. Of course nothing really changed...I'm still running an Intel based PC with MS XP. The definition of a "monopoly" however isn't all encompassing around one company simply being the "biggest" such as you suggest with GC...there are many other factors involved. I would think that someone so well versed in business law such as yourself would know this.

I don't know all of the details involved with this law suit so I won't go in to specific details however I -know- that when a new GC opens in a given region, they push A LOT of smaller businesses right out of the picture. I live about 20 miles from the nearest GC and even the small shops out here where I live make comments about having to compete with GC...every local music shop owner even 20 miles away has a problem with them. When the Cleveland Guitar Center opened (which opened right next to Music City North...another Fender dealer now long gone), several otherwise good music stores just dropped like flies. How exactly does "John's Hardware" compete with companies such as Home Depot and Lowes...you can't. Simple as that. No, this fact alone doesn't necessarily indicate a monopoly or issues of price fixing but realistically that can quite often be the case...whether people realize it or not. Most people don't realize that types of manipulations that go on in "big business" with multi-million dollar corporations...even people who have taken a business law class.

On a very personal note, I hope that this law suit against GC proceeds. I'm willing to bet that GC is found as a monopoly and/or that the alleged charges of price fixing are legitimate and should that be the case, I hope they get their butts nailed to the wall for it, along with anyone...including Fender, who "willingly participated" in any alleged activity's. But that is strictly my own personal opinion.



But we're not talking about just strings here are we? Using your own analogy, this wouldn't apply to just "milk" but other dairy products and certainly other food items as well. Perhaps those dairies could in fact prevent certain school systems from buying the milk...but how does that affect "cheese" or even hot dogs or those crusty little pizza thingies or the pb&h sandwiches...they don't. However that wouldn't make the three dairies involved any less guilty of price fixing now would it? Poor analogy there my friend.

To be specific here, very simply it's not possible to buy a "brand new Fender guitar" from anyone other than a Fender authorized dealer. Yes, you can buy other brands such as Excel, Johnson and a host of others that are similar to Fender instruments but the name "Fender" bears a great deal of weight in this specific situation and as such has a number of implications. You are trying to use broad generalities to define very specific and unique situations...and it doesn't work. I could explain it further but in this situation you are fixated on your belief that you are right and everyone else is wrong.



I see...so since you took "Business Law 101", that makes you an indisputable expert on such matters and as such, no one else is allowed to have -any- opinion at all...educated or otherwise, on the matter? You took a class in college so you're right and again everyone else who doesn't agree with you MUST be wrong? How dare we have any opinions of our own! Shame on us all!






Woooow....I just love how you twisted that one around. Kudos on your verbal acrobatics there! I love facts...have no problem with them at all. That said, I'm not anally retentive about them either particularly since in this case at least, we don't have -ALL- of the facts. All we know for sure is that a law suit has been filed...unless of course you've had some divine premonitions you're not sharing with us? It -is- entirely possible that should this law suit proceed, some "facts" that we on this forum are not aware of, may very well come to light. That however is NOT my issue with your comments. The issues that I have here in regards to your getting under my skin is first and foremost that you seem unable to express your opinions on this matter (sorry dude...that's all they are...opinions) without being rather rude about it. You attacked the OP just for making a comment contrary to your own beliefs and now you're bent out of shape because someone else (errr...me) also disagrees with you.

You seem to feel that you are the only one who has a (supposedly) educated opinion about this issue...after all, you took a business law class in college...despite a serious lack of "facts" about the specific case and you're unwilling to even consider any other thoughts on the matter. Then you insinuate that you're just stating facts but you make comments just as subjective as any other opinions posted here. I don't really even have a problem with that except that you are trying to force those opinions down everyone's throat as though you're some sort of expert on the matter. Again how dare us to think we have a right to our own opinions...how did any of us ever survive in life without you there to so lovingly guide us? How did I even learn to tie my own shoes without you there to help?

Wow...

That said, the facts of the matter are this; a law suit has been filed against GC in regards to price fixing which also named Fender. Very few "facts" about this case have been released to the public (to the best of my knowledge) so all people have to go on is their own opinions. Further and more directly to the point, the issue of price fixing and/or Fender's involvement as well as an alleged monopoly on the part of Guitar Center will NOT be decided on an internet forum...not even this one. The facts are that your opinions regardless of how highly educated you believe them to be, as well as my own opinions and comments are completely irrelevant in regards to these specific issues. Unless either of us are chosen to represent any of the parties involved...which is extraordinarily unlikely...ultimately we're both just blowing a lot of wind.



Now I was going to add a great deal more to what I've already said but after re-reading, much of it was rhetorical to what I've already stated...and far be it for me to go on and on about something (that was a joke by the way in case you didn't catch it). There is however one last comment I must address...




Woo-hoo....yep...let's throw some more of those "facts" around!!! Yee-ha! Yep...facts is facts alright and that one is most certainly, beyond any shadow of a doubt, indisputable!

Hey Chop...since you're clearly a well versed expert on law with many years of experience in the courtroom...err...classroom, perhaps you can explain to me -why- people who have a clear and known bias in regards to a case aren't allowed to litigate in a proceeding?



Flame me all you want now...I've said my peace and stated some "facts" (compared with the subjectivity of "having one's head examined" as well as comments about a case you have no actual facts about). If you are incapable of acknowledging them let alone allowing others to have an opinion, that's your problem. I have other things to do.


Jim

(...and people wonder why some folks decide to leave forums such as this. Right).

Quoted from the article-

"Giambusso is a reporter who regularly writes on class action lawsuits for the New Jersey Star Ledger and the New York Times, so the assumption for observers regarding the $5,000,000 suit (plus legal expenses) is aimed at hauling the FTC investigation into open court for public scrutiny."

Seems as if he just wants to see the FTC files and expose potentially damaging information, not really win a 5-mil judgement.
Don't forget, he's a reporter. Second only to politicians as the lowest life form on Earth.

Take it easy Big Jay..."Im an economist and business analyst....I promise you I believe they are all dirty....including small business owners. "

I am a small business owner and my business is anything but "dirty"

Not pissed... just dont want to be included in the "All" group

Bill

_________________
Hey, Boy Blue is back!

I think I'm gonna order me a Surf-Green Strat.

Maybe Fiesta Red.

Rosewood this time.

Thank you, Fender.

MAN!! What a thread!

Just keep going and all of us will fix all the world problems in short order. (I wish )

It reminds me of something I heard - opinions are like rear ends (the cleaned up version). Everybody has one - and they all stink. (Of course, that was leaving out mine - both of mine are perfect and smell like roses, if at all. )

My opinion?? Most are is still scared (and broke) - and have pulled back to worrying about just themselves and their immediate family. On the individual level - It's down to survival.
And those clowns (or devils - depending on your view) in this administration aren't fixing it, or going to fix it. They are too busy giving away our tax money to their rich buddies. Now our kids - and grand kids - and their grand kids - don't have a chance, because they will be paying the bills for the rich to get richer today, right now.

Republican? Democrat? How about neither one!?!?

One things for sure. We need to get those that are in office right now out. And as soon as possible. Clean house.

Maybe look in a new direction, instead of at the two parties that have become so much alike - and have added to all the problems. Maybe an independent, or a third party. Maybe at some patriotic Americans that still value our country and freedom - before this administration outlaws that too.

Fixing the economy and GC?? Instead of the big bailout line of thinking prevalent today - how about letting nature take its course. You don't like GC - simple - don't buy there. Support the ones you like. If all are alike - don't buy anything. Soon the bad ones will fold up and someone new, and someone that's "hungry", will come along.

There! .... problem solved!

("patience" grasshopper )

Next!!!

(don't ya just love these forums - we fix world problems in one or two posts that politicians struggle over for years )