She must not have been paying the right officials

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

too much pressure from the west, at a time China wants to clean up their image, and join the world economy. I expect to see changes with how they react to complaints from abroad.

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

If you are not kidding, please let us know how it is!

I notice that the Fenders at that Fake Site still have obvious flaws. The Gibsons, however, are getting too close to tell from a couple of crummy internet pics. Don't tell them, but they still don't have the Gibson Serial Numbers and "Made in U.S.A." part right. Most of them do have 2 screw truss rod covers instead of the old tell-tale-fake 3 screw covers.

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Member #26797
My other guitar is a Strat.

Well, that one's not that great. There are at least 4 obvious flaws in that picture alone. As for the sound, it's probably not that bad - Epiphones are made in China now, and that fake is using the Epiphone versions of the Gibson pickups (Flaw #1 - real Gibsons don't have that plastic protector on the pups - but Epiphones do).

Ummm ... can you review it when you get that bad boy?

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Laughing out loud with fear and hope, I have a desperate plan ...

Niki I dont know what link you want me to post. The bottom line and the difference with Tokai is that it said Tokai on the headstock. I really could not care how much they copied as Fender and Gibson have been copied by everyone, but there is a difference between copying and counterfiting . I mean people are getting burnt bad on these things which is dead wrong. I dont bullsh!t and some of those Fender models would have fooled me. If they put us all in a room with five guitars I bet we all get burnt on at least one. Hey I know this really exposes the markup that these companiese are making on us, I mean when a guitar can just have some players signature on it and the value goes up 3 to 5 grand well thats insane and thats more of the straight collectors and companies game because I can compare it to millionaires flipping baseball cards. But the bottom line is it is mostly the blue collar guy that is going to get hurt with these as he is reaching for the stars for that too good to be true deal. It also shows that $3oo can buy alot. I would like for some experts in science to break down a real Gibson and a Chinese fake splinter by splinter and screw by screw to show a $4,000 difference in materials. But as long as they established names

Has anyone else looked at the Gretsch guitars on this site? All the badges are there: Chet Atkins, Bixby, Filtronic, model numbers and names. A closer look and what I see is a good copy of the 5120, not a $2'000.00 guitar.
Thanks for the heads-up Straycat 113
John.E

Well this really came to fuition last month when I had said I would look for a Frampton Les Paul for my friend Mike on ebay, and when I found one for him I was having a smoke outside the store while he was giving a setup to the pink EBMM EVH I had bought on ebay when he came out and said it is a fake. All I remember is a ringing in my ears and a numb sick feeling in my stomach as I thought he was talking about my guitar.lol I must of had it written allover my face as he said the Frampton not your ax, as I did not know he was on the laptop. Then four of us were huddled around the PC and he was picking out what was wrong. I had posted that on the forum but did not really know that the extent was way past Gibsons as I know a lot of us had the same thinking. I had told you guys I was going to tell that guy on ebay his ax was a fake and he took it down and wanted to know what forums were talking about it. Now he had over 300 transactions and a 100% rating but did not seem as mad as a guy who got taken as he said it was such a good looking and playing ax it fooled him and that it was going up on his wall. I say my $@! he knew what he was selling. So here is the new question to ask when buying on ebay"theres no way this is a fake is there" so that covers your $@! with paypal if something is.

One thing to keep in mind when looking at the pictures--that isn't necessarily the guitar you get.
The picture might look like a nice guitar that would be simple to fix up for a fraction of the cost--but if you don't actually get that one, you could get one that isn't worth the time, money, or effort to fix up.

Some of these sites use pictures of actual Gibsons--then send you an obvious fake. And it's not playable and not worth making playable.

It happens.

Another point to keep in mind is this--they are counterfeit--you shouldn't buy them no matter how good they may be.

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It wasn't Willy-Nilly, it was at crows.

screw it, guess I'll poke the hornets nest.

Gibsons are way overpriced, and I've yet to find one yet that didn't have some glaring flaws with the frets or the binding. It's a sad world when you pick up a $500. MIJ/C/K wherever Schecter it you feel, "wow! This is quality! Perfect intonation and setup, sounds beautiful, split tapping coils, perfect binding and inlay work.." then you pick up a $5000. Gibson LP and think, "did that fret just stab me? Why's the binding look crooked? Is the fret board coming off? oh no there's just a gap filled with glue and crap to try and hide it," *plug it in* "where's the mid-range on this guitar? Why's it sound so muddy and flat?" These are not thoughts I expect to go through my head when holding a $5000. guitar.

It would be awesome if Gibson instead of spending ridiculous amounts of money on advertising and lawsuits actually spent the time and money to start making high quality decent guitars again. I haven't seen one in 15 years that I would pay more then $500. for, and for that price I'd rather get an Epiphone since they're usually built better.

Gibsons quality control is absolutely atrocious. And everyone I know who's bought a Gibby LP and tried to return it and have the 'mistakes' fixed by the factory quickly realized they'd entered into a nightmare, usually the guitar came back worse or instead of being actually fixed it was basically "band-aided/fixed fast and cheap" and they'd end up selling the guitar at a loss of usually a couple thousand dollars. Just the kind of thing you'd expect when you buy a $5000. guitar. I've seen Gibson nightmares over and over from friends, and yet for some sick reason I still wouldn't mind having a nice looking LP. Just havent found one yet that meets my standards.

And I play Deluxe Squiers pretty exclusively nowadays, so I don't exactly have Porsche type tastes. I just like a guitar that is solid, feels good, and has nice fret work done. I'm not actually all that extremely picky.

If Gibson lowered their prices and massively improved the quality control of their guitars then I think they would sell a ton more guitars. On top of that the counterfitters would have a much harder time selling the fakes.

If you could get an quality american made Gibson for around the same price as a quality american made Fender, people would choose the Gibson over a bootleg every single time. But as long as you can get a nice fake for a few hundred bucks instead of the real one for $5000. people are going to keep buying fakes.

Gibsons really dropped the ball in the last decade or so, they need a new business model, CEO, or something. Because the way they're running things is just insane. And the markup on their guitars have gone through the roof. All you're paying for now is the name and the history, that's it. It's definitely not in the quality of the guitars anymore.

(and don't even get me started on how many poor LP's I've seen with the necks and headstocks snapped off. There's something wrong with the design I think, because I've seen almost 10 of them that were broken in the exact same spots....scary.)

But hey, I'm on a Fender board, looking at my Squiers,......what else am I gonna say?

Well I think we are going to know how one of these guitars sounds soon enough because I think someone will pick one up. Niki said he was going to grab one and if he does he will put it through a Ninja style basic training. The scary thing is that if it comes back with good grades everyone is going to feel like we have been getting ripped off big time for years and then the big boys will have some explaining to do as I cant believe they sound like $@!&. Plus if they are selling for only $300 the company still has to turn a profit. But until the name on the headstock is changed I will pass on having anything to do with them. The thing that is really pissing me off is that they come with a case to boot. So everyone that is fine with getting a gigbag with there midpriced guitar because Fender or Gibson cant give you one. HOW YOU FEEL NOW!

Thats my point entirely. The big boys aint always so good. A bit of healthy competition from the far east is exactly what we as consumers need. In the past 2 years I've bought a far eastern Wilkinson guitar and a 2nd hand 50th anniversary deluxe that both required (IMO at my hand) the same ammount of time and patience to get em where i wanted em. Now if thats the case where am I better off spending my money? Surely no ones going to tell me its china? Consistency of USA instruments is far greater than cheapo far eastern instruments (notice the term cheapo). I am ready to admit I got a bad deluxe. What is scary is that a bad deluxe (premium instrument) and a premium far eastern guitar can be made to play within the same sort of standard, with negligable difference of man/tool hours. It leaves me wondering 'what if?' Especialy when confronted by the price of a gibson standard which has always needed a few good tweaks.

Scary times people, keep your eyes open. The 2nd hand market looks like its going to become a lot harder to navigate.

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No no and no

Yes, most Gibsons are overpriced--so are many Fenders. As well as many PRS's, Gretsches, etc.

But counterfeit guitars are not the way to go.

Do you think they really care about QC?
Not at those prices.

I've come across counterfeits in stores, and they are not anywhere near as good as the real thing, even if the price is way lower-sometimes.

And I have come across too many horror stories of these guitars being unplayable above the 5th fret to risk one for the price.

$200-$300 for crap is still wasted.

Now when someone puts out a good product with their own name on the guitar (ie--not a counterfeit) and it's a good price--I will consider it.

Ibanez does this, there are Fenders that do this--and some Squiers.
The Godin brands made mostly in Canada (and some in the US) are great bang for the buck guitars.

There are other brands as well that fit this.

So look around, and don't buy counterfeit--they're not worth the risk or the dishonesty.

Gibsons being overpriced does not justify counterfeits.
Copies with the company's own name on the headstock instead of Gibson?
Sure--and some of those are decidedly inferior--but sure--why not.
But counterfeits--pass on them.

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It wasn't Willy-Nilly, it was at crows.

I don't hate Gibson at all but they seem to be really expensive. I wonder how much of that is profit.... I imagine quite a bit. I doubt I will ever own one seeing that they start at like 800 bucks or something and that's a base model.... what a joke. I saw a whole bunchload of Gibson knockoffs on Tradetang.com .... for cheap. If I was gonna get a copy of a guitar it would be a Gibson because otherwise I may never be able to own the words on a guitar. They have a bunch of nice ones too, but I really hate browsing foreign sites. If someone gets one I would like to hear about it. I guess it would have some predictable points... cheap/weird pickups or funky controls, low quality plastics (bindings,etc.) and straightness of assembly would probably be off and noticeable after awhile.

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Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder. George Washington
No picture = No equipment
Fender CD-60
Squier Deluxe Stratocaster
Squier VM Tele Thinline

Everyon talks about how much Gibsons are. But consider that all Gibsons are MIA, so they will have higher labor costs. Also ... most Gibsons have set necks and binding which is much more invloved to construct than ... say ... a Fender Strat.

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Laughing out loud with fear and hope, I have a desperate plan ...