Hey, i know theres a few of you knocking about, i need to ask you all some questions.

Im interested in becoming a sessionist, ive started doing payed work (Mostly with schools playing the music with live bands for pantomines and plays such as grease and chicago and whatnot)

Whats the best thing you guys have played, and how have you got yourself there? And is it really that hard?

is it hard? yes.
Will people make unrealistic requests? yes.
Do you have to become an expert in deciphering the difference between what the producer is saying and what he really wants? yes.
Do you often times find yourself being uncredited on the recording? yes.
Do they sometimes screw you on the pay? yes.
will people steal your music? oh yes.
Do you get to meet cool musicians and hang out in really cool studios? yes.
at the end of the day do you get to think, "I play guitar for a living?" yes.
Is it worth it? yes,......and no.

I really have no advice on how to start doing it. I got lucky and just seem to get asked by people through word of mouth.

oh, and sometimes you'll find you've written/arranged an entire hip-hop cd in one day. Because lets face it most hip-hop songs are 5-10 seconds of music that's just looped for 4 minutes. But you wont get credited for writing the entire cd. You'll "usually" just get paid for the days work, even if the cd goes on to sell alot.

also, never ever ever let someone talk you into doing work on their cd for free. People will try and say, "when the cd starts making money then we can pay you." It's bullcrap, you'll never get paid, wont have your name on the cd, wont even get a free copy of the cd, and at the end of the day can't even really prove that you wrote/recorded it.

get it in writing, and get paid. Unless it's something that artistically you really, really want to do, then don't do it for free.

The music business pretty much sucks and will rape you, chew you up and spit you out and never give it another thought. Guitar players are pretty disposable at the end of the day. There's tons of session players. What separates the players from the musicians who get called back are whether you can do what they ask but then turn it up a notch,.....to 11, if you will.

Still all in all it's pretty cool. But the pay is kind of lousy and there's no benefits other then getting to do what you love.

Hope I didn't discourage you, just being realistic is all.

cheers.

Well i want to put together a band but its so hard finding the right musicians who other then just "Want to make noise" and the ones who are dedicated and skilled enough.

But id thought id go into session work (Since im doing it on a very small scale and its... well silly)

Anyway i thought sessionists were payed very nicely, my college hired some dude to play and record everyone who did music technologies pieces in college own studio for £1000 a day, and he did 5 days, and he wasnt that good. (mind you they got him to play mostly oasis....)

Mind you i did work for this one school who gave me 2 days to learn the entire set, thank god it was mostly 12 bar 50s stuff. (but there were a few tricky solos i wasn't aloud to improvise). then i got just £80 for two nights, then again i am a student.

yeah that'll happen too. "Learn 10 songs in the next 10 minutes, you're on the clock!"

I think there's probably a musicians union for session players, but I haven't heard of one personally, but I'm sure one's out there. Those guys probably make a good amount per day. I guess I'm more vagabond, I travel around and teach do gigs and session work when I can. I'm also on the hunt for the musicians I want in my band. In my experience I've found a lot of good players, but by and large musicians seem to be flakes. They say they'll do something then they don't.

It's hard to find real, serious, musicians who live, breath, eat and sh*t music 24 hours a day.

Instead you find alot of music snobs, (jazz is superiour, everything else inferior,) or you get drunks, drug addicts, and like I said, flakes. People that swear they love your music and want to play in your band, but then you never hear from them again, or they're always too busy doing other things. Drummers are notorious for stuff like that.

It would make me pretty pissed off and jaded if it weren't for the fact that at the end of the day all I ever want to do is create music.

One of these days I'm sure I'm going to have to get a real job though. I still dream about the day someone goes, "holy crap, noone's ever done anything like that on a guitar before, we're gonna make you rich!!"

Then I'll get a Squier endorsment and be the happiest guy in the world, lol.

It's great, terrible, satisfying, frustrating and challenging - sometimes all at once. It all depends on what capacity you do it. You can be the "rock guy" for certain people or studios, or the all around musician.

Basically, you need to know music inside and out. You need to be able to read charts fast and play them perfectly shortly thereafter, sometimes right on the spot. You need to be able to hear something and instantly have a lot of different ideas on what to do with it, as well as be able to do what someone is telling you, which often isn't what you hear in your head or what you want it to sound like. You need to be able to write a "song that sounds like U2, but isn't anything they've ever written" and tasks like that. Once you get a part down, you need to be able to play it perfectly many times in a row. When it becomes a job, you sometimes end up not liking certain part of that side of the business. Some people love the challenge, diversity and precision that session work demands. Even if you're one of those people, and can do it well, you'll have times when you question why you even bother.

For guys like only like playing certain styles and are close minded to other styles, you won't get many calls, or call backs.

If you're just looking for a better quality of musicians, that also depends on where you live. Good musicians are easier to find around big cities, many because there's just more of them, and more competition. They learn from each other faster and you have a bigger pool to pick from.

Well im very open minded music wise, But i cant do with all that death metal, hardcore (or anything else that ends with, "Core") but i imagine you'd rarely get called up for stuff like that.


And yeah i thought once you'd thought you were good enough, i thought you'd have to move near to a big city like london, new york ect.. to get lots of work, but im presuming you say that you travel alot means that you end up doing work all over which i kinda gathered anyway.

Besides i cant understand how you cant get a full band since your quite deep in the industry. Are in an obscure place or are most musicians really not that dependable?

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"Oh, it's a windy and sunny day
And I can hear the faint sound of distant waves
The past weeks have been going by so fast
It's all the same, the bright sky and shining sun
I have a feeling it's gonna be a fun day"

Dunno i've done a couple of death/thrash tracks amongst other stuff. I've never been employed to write though. That was all plenty of years ago. I just went round a couple of studio's in brum, worcester and dudley. Gave em my contact details on a card with the message 'guitarist for recording hire'. Mainly used for producers projects. Bands tend to have someone or know someone who can fit the bill. Particularly with a popular instrument like guitar. Some time in, around other session musicians that i got to suss out the pay grading system. It basicaly increases your amount per hour dependant on how many successful records you've played on. So the guy who plays guitar for madonna gets nine squillion quid a hour, i get a bag of chips and a can of john smiths.

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No no and no

for the metal question, yeah sometimes you do get called for that. The project I'm working on right now was put together by a really, really amazing drummer named Mike Tools. This guy's insane, he does poly rhythms and things that just don't even seem possible, different parts of his body playing in different times. You can imagine. The cd he's putting together now is a showcase of Afro-Cuban rhythms and how all music rhythmically dates back to these particular beats. So on his cd he's going to have a wide range of musical styles all built on these rhythms. I was asked to write the metal song that would fit with these rhythms. It wasn't hard I just played with him one night and we banged out a grinding chunky song rooted in F#. Lotta fun actually, and something pretty different taking the drums into account. 2 weeks ago I laid down the guitar tracks at Delmark Records (which is like walking into a history time machine, amazing. I half expected Muddy Waters to walk down the hall.) But yeah, lotta fun and it's more in my comfort zone. I think of myself as a blues player, but uhm,...noone else seems to think so, lol.

As for the 'why is it hard to find a band?' question. It's not. I've met lots of really cool players. But the problem is one you kind of have to click with the people you're going to be playing with. Even if you're all different people there still as to be that 'something' that draws you together. And the other thing is just that apparently the music I write is rather bizarre and people either get it or they don't. I have alot of punk/metal guys who want to play with me, but their left hand is weak and they can't do the more intricate stuff. Then I get classical guys who have amazing left hands and really want to play aggressive electric music, but they can't hold a pick and have no right hand rhythm. So what can ya do?

I'm finally after many years starting to buckle down and am just going to start recording stuff myself. I'm very anti-tech when it comes to guitar and music. I just want to plug in and play. But now that I realize that I can use my laptop to record music and such I'm starting to explore that area alot more. If worse comes to worse I'll just make the cd myself, do all the parts except for the drums (which I have a couple people that can do that for me) and just release it onto the net and hope people like it.

at the very, very least people are going to hear a guitar do some things they've never heard before. And really,....isn't that what we all want?

and my comment about considering myself a blues guy? I do. I just also happen to play very aggressively,.....and with distortion.....and I can shred when I want. So most people don't think of me as a blues guy. But I love the blues, it was my start and my heart.

I was thinking about this thread earlier and I realized I forgot to mention that all studios are different. I've played and recorded in some real dives where the producer is doing heroin. It happens. I've also been in some really cool places. You've got to be picky.

my problem is I'm not picky. I'll play anything, anywhere, anytime. I just like to play. That attitude can get you into trouble.

Mostly, just try and have fun. It's 'playing' guitar not 'working' guitar. Playing is always fun.

Good luck man, sincerely.

Thanks thats probably the best advise ive ever had.

A while ago i was auditioning for a college place where i played and sang Hallelujah by jeff buckley, they said it was almost flawless and very good, but he then asked, "What do you plan on doing with yourself job wise?". I said that id like to get into session playing and his responce was, "HAHA no way, your never gonna get into it because you'll be competing with guys like me, and at the end of the day are they gonna chose you or me? yeah ME".

At that point i relised its probably not a great course if the leader of its an ego mainiac but i did understand where he was coming from but i think it as a bit brash since i was coming for a place on the course... Maybe he hated jeff buckley.

The jokes on him because i went to one of the other colleges where i got unconditional offers from the auditions and the next week i ended up getting hired for a bunch of school musicals

_________________
"Oh, it's a windy and sunny day
And I can hear the faint sound of distant waves
The past weeks have been going by so fast
It's all the same, the bright sky and shining sun
I have a feeling it's gonna be a fun day"

When I was sick of the road and looking for my first job in advertising, my first interview was with an agency owner who told me that becoming a copywriter was virtually impossible. Not only did you have to possess a complete command of the language, white-hot writing skills and clever ideas and an endless capacity for BS, you had to have a technical ability that bordered on the superhuman.

He whipped out a marker layout (that's how they did them in those days) and pointed to the gray space.

"You see that?" he raved, worked into a real good lather now. "The art director is going to tell you exactly how much space you've got, and you're going to have to write to fill it... EXACTLY, right down the last space and character!!!'

Well, this just seemed like a insurmountable problem. I was a good writer, but how could anybody work under that kind of pressure?

It didn't take me long to find out that you can't. And that nobody asks you to. The agency owner was a blowhard, and was lying about the process to make himself sound much more important and elevated than he really was. Truth is, the typesetter will make it fit. Sure, if it runs long, they'll ask you to cut it, but nobody is going to come around and say, "Rewrite this... it's four characters over!"

I eventually got a writer's job elsewhere, and thanks to that I got into commercial music, won some national awards, and decided to go into business for myself. So I'm not a session guy, unless you want to count playing on my own productions. I am a guy who HIRES sessions guys.

So, let me drop this on you, in light on my anecdote above... the business is much more sane and professional than many suppose. Like any business, reliability is prized, as well as a good work ethic and a personality that is pleasant to be around. Nice guys who are a good hang and play real well get more gigs than flaming geniuses who act like rock stars. (I have called the same extraordinarily skilled saxophone player for every sax session for almost 15 years.)

So, my advice is this: develop your chops, don't specialize in a "sound," learn to show up on time smelling good, develop a network of people you like working with (they treat you well, pay you on time, aren't doing drugs at the session), and keep doing that until you've carved out your own career.

Expect success but be prepared to fail. And remember to believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.

Thanks, i have been developing my own sound but when it comes down to it i can dial in and make the sound adequate for the job, but its nice to know that it isnt too grotty as everyone makes it out to be, its nice to know

I think im gonna play for a few more years before i start really going for it.

Thanks for the help fellas

_________________
"Oh, it's a windy and sunny day
And I can hear the faint sound of distant waves
The past weeks have been going by so fast
It's all the same, the bright sky and shining sun
I have a feeling it's gonna be a fun day"

If you can dig up some old copies of Guitar Player magazine, Tommy Tedesco had a column that had loads of real-life experiences and situations that he had run into. It's very informative and a good read.


http://pribek.net/2008/07/02/thoughts-o ... king-crew/

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Being able to play and enjoy music is a gift that's often taken for granted.

Don't leave home without it!

BigJay, there's no entrance exam for session work. If you can do something the producer wants, then you'll get work. But the more you can do, the more work you get.

The sax player I mentioned above has a Masters in brasswind performance. He plays soprano, alto, tenor, bari, clarinet and flute with equal proficiency. He can read a chart like I read a newspaper, settle into a section (or be one) with a minimal number of takes,or he can improvise in virtually style I want - 90's ragtime, 20's N'Orleans jazz, Bird, Shorter, even Kenny G if I want it - and each take gets better and better, giving me dozens of editing choices.

I also call a banjo player who plays one style - four-string clawhammer - but he does it very, very well, and owns some wonderful sounding instruments.

The sax guy is here every four to six weeks, plays jazz gigs all over town, is in two rock bands (a modern rock and an oldies outfit), and does sessions for other studios, too. It's all he does. The banjo guyI call once a year, maybe, or less, and he has a day job.

Anybody who does something a producer would like to have done can get part-time studio work, so... yeah, if they like what you're doing, ask them if they think you're ready for sessions.