I think experimentation is good. I wouldn't call the offset body guitars failures, The Jag is pretty popular in punky circles. I own a newer Jag and a CIJ Jag and a Jazzmaster, #$@*&!% love the things. I want to get the Baritone jag and a jagmaster in the near future as well. And am interested in a Cyclone or Toronado.

But the strat and tele are icons. Amazing instruments. With consistent minor tweaks and changes.

Experimentation is good though. I would like to see more of it. And I am sure we will when inspiration strikes and someone creates a good new design.

Yeah i've never seen any of these. I like it alot better than what Dean and some of the others are doing with thier "metal axes". Fender should bring back those old styles that didn't make it then because the times have changed and so have poeples taste in guitar looks regaurdless of how bad it may seem.

OK - you're a tart.

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Ignorance IS bliss - and I am the happiest person here!

Thank you. That's all I asked.

- C

Oh boy Slapchop you are like the Warren Buffet and Steve Jobs of the Fender forum buisness department and you let loose some jewels today. Lets start with since the buyout of CBS ."They have had nothing but a steady growth." Well I would hope so since they were a hair away from chapter 11 and having the doors shut forever. That might be because every guitar player that mattered in a decade that might of had the most talented crop of guitarist ever were not playing Fenders. And that Fender at least has the balls to say that Fender Japan probably single handedly saved the company from going under and maybe that is why the head of Fender Japan went into the Fender hall of fame this year. OK here is another pearl of wisdom 'They know what there market wants and they introduce new products" Well I dont know about you but I cant fit one more Strat or Tele into my house. Whats next a triple humbucker strat or a Tom Jones Tele please everyone on this forum knows deep inside they are dying for something totally FRESH and NEW LOOKING These two guitars are over 60 years old and you want to tell me in all that time they could not come up with anything else .But your the buisness whiz so I guess the VG went south because they just could not keep up with the demand . And the last time I looked I think Gibson had a $@!& load of acoustics that are considered some of the best ever. Maybe not up to snuff of the Telecoustic and Stratacoustic but close. By the way I dont drink but what ever your smoking maybe I will try it.

Gibson was within weeks of going out of business entirely, not just chapter 11, in 86 for the record.

You seem to be under the hallucinatory concept that YOU are Fender's entire market. You're not.

You claim that everybody on this forum is aching inside for Fender to build something new and fresh, and then you turn around and in the same-badly punctuated breath cite the failure of the VG.... which failed because nobody wanted anything but Road Worns. So which is it? Is everybody dying for something new? Well, then how come you don't own a Parker Fly, which in terms of versatility and quality buries every current Fender in its dust? But let Fender break incredible new ground with something like the VG, and you can't give it away. That doesn't sound like a market that is dying for innovation.

And as I pointed out earlier, Gibson's moderately successful acoustics (can't compare to Taylor or Martin) don't account for the massive market superiority Fender has in amps and basses.

As for my personal cred, I have been in the business of marketing and advertising for over 30 years... copywriter, creative director and now self-employed making commercial music. So, while this sad fact may rile you, you don't understand the market as well as I do.

Look, man... fury isn't the same thing as knowledge. Drop it, okay? You don't even know what you're ranting about.

Wait what??

You are right about fender Japan saving the company. But how did they do that? it was on the back of their 50's reissue series. Fender japan was more successful and became the business model for the whole company by it's adherence to the established product.(And maybe more importantly, it's penetration into the cheap guitar market, both domestically and abroad.)

Really, in my mind I think the last successful 'innovative' design was maybe the Ibanez Jem? 20 or so odd years ago, successfully marketing a 7 string with a handle. But it was the traditional (super) Strat shape.

Parker Fly have been around that long, but how popular are they really? I have never seen one in real life, just in magazines, and online.

What happened to the Steinberger revolution, even a simple change like no headstock (which actually was attempted very early on in electric guitar history, long before the SB basses and guitars,) are impuned by guitarists. Guitarists are very conservative. All companies are looking to their pasts, if they have them. Gibson has it's reissues too. Any new designs are torn apart for either being too radical, or not radical enough. Remember the Gibson inspired by fender thread. That was a minor derivation on the SG. personally I saw what the original poster meant, it was sort of an SG/Superstrat design. But honestly it wasn't a huge change, but people were adamant.

There's a reason companies like fender and Gibson, and Ibanez, and ... focus on their proven lines. It's what people want.


The VG failed because for the most part people didn't want it. It was excellent at what it was meant to do, but the market just wasn't really there. People buy a Strat because they want a Strat. Guitar is pretty basic, it doesn't need to be reinvented. All attempts to do so have failed. telecasters Strats, Les Pauls, and SG's all are what they are because the got it right, straight out of the gate.

The next generations of guitars were slight variations on them. the most souped up superStrat is still a strat copy at heart.

Don't get me wrong, I am going to try lowball the guitar store down the street on a VG, because it will be a fun gimmick. But I don't really care if I get it or not. As handy as it is, I don't have a ton of use for most of its features. Most people don't. That's why it was discontinued. It wasn't a problem with quality. I think it probably achieved or came close to achieving all of it's design points. The high satisfaction (anecdotally, no science here, but all i have heard from people who bought em is good,) shows that people who will utilize its features are happy. But most of us are just looking for a good guitar, the VG isn't basic, so it doesn't fill the bill for a lot of people. If people wanted a 'FRESH AND NEW' product they would buy it, but they don't they want high quality basic guitars. Even the most expensive CS models are still pretty true to the original concept. The world isn't ready for a Solar Powered Laser Beam Guitar

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

This is my dream Fender off-brand:



If anything it's even more of a throwback to days gone by.

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

Well they have a formula that works. An occassional update or a reissue of something from the past. Some work some don't VG strat was a flop and ther have been others. But you have to figure in the last ten years there revenue has doubled so you mays well take and run with what you got. The reputation and the name tag from the past has been able to carry much favor.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

LOL Slapchop lets get one thing straight you could not rile me up in this or any other lifetime. If anyone seems riled it is you. All I did was dissect your statements which all seemed to fall flat on there face. Now try and digest what I am saying before you shoot off your mouth as that seems to be your major problem. When I say new I mean something that is not based on a Strat or Tele. I think if you went into a top restaurant steak and lobster would be at the top of the menu but if you had only that choice for 60 years you would look to eat somewhere else. I dont know where you came up with the Parker Fly but I did not bring it up but I sure as hell would check one out. I think Fender knocked you down for a job once to many times that you are scared to death to say anything negative about them.Maybe you should go out and check out what other gear is out there. MusicMan has made at least 7 top notch axes in every way in 20 years time. Ibanez ,PRS, Dean, ESP,Benedetto,Parker,Tom Anderson,Fernandes and many other smaller companies are major players who make some great guitars because they broke Fender and Gibsons back when they were the two big bullies of the guitar world. Most of them might of started off making copies till they realised that neither one of them were making anything new." But you should know this being a marketing wiz." So they grabbed all the hot young players and found out what they liked and let them make it, and obviously they must of been right as all these companies have huge followings and there guitars are used by most of todays young top players. But then again I am talking to someone who has stated Hendrix,Clapton and SRV would not even make his list of top 100 players which goes beyond ridicules and Hendrix could not write and was a mediocre player-wouldnt you love to be that mediocre. You have this narcissistic self image of yourself that you are some kind of marketing and buisness wiz but I think if you were that sharp you would not be unemployed----ER I mean selfemployed music writer. As far as the rest of your resume there are about 4 million other guys with the same one living in there parents basement.

Hi Slapchop one thing I can not agree with is that Gibson is far behind Taylor and Martin. There is a lot more to acoustics then just guitars Gibson makes some of the best Madolin's and Banjo's you can get and don't forget there Resonators. That said over Martin and Taylor people should give a Eastman or a Collings a try they make acoustic dreams!

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

I'd like to see this body style with a Stratocaster neck. But I still like the classic look of the Stratocaster and Telecaster.

RK

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RK

2007 Fender Highway 1
2012 American Deluxe
2015 MIM Dave Murray HHH
2010 Fender Blacktop
1987 Fender Avalon Acoustic
2012 Marshall DSL 15 watt head

Gee I miss all the fun.... An entertaining read and an endless debate.

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I'm not slow... and I'm not fast... just sort of halffast...