Shredd6, that post was brilliant... I hope you get to use your powers of tube divination for good! It's like the rock version of one of those stories where some kid gets picked on, vows to some day extract his revenge, works out until he has veins in his teeth, tracks down his tormentors and then realises that they've become pitiful husks of their former selves and that is punishment enough. Then he has to find out what to do with his life... heh. It must have burned to have some A&R drone say that about you, and I feel for you having to sell your beloved Mesa/Boogie just when it was getting sweet. You'll get back to where you want to be, I'm sure. Meanwhile, we get to benefit from your experience.

Sounds like you and the Mesa/Boogie head (who wrote the "Class A" piece I linked to in my earlier post) would have a lot to talk about!

Thanks man.
Honestly, I don't have any animosity toward the old members anymore. I'm not even playing hard-core music these days. I made the switch to Reggae and it's more gratifying to me. Of the members that made up that band, only 2 of us are still playing in bands.

I was pretty devastated about that whole thing, but the A&R rep was right. I gotta give him credit for knowing something wasn't right with my sound. I was running all GT tubes and 2 broken rectos. It sounded like a Fuzz-Box turned all the way up.

A Mesa 2-ch Dual Rec is easy to work with. The gain stages work in the same manner as a HRDV, only there's a tube slot for the effects loop and one extra gain stage. Lonestars are pretty easy as well.

Other Mesas like the Mark IV, Mark V, II-c, and Roadking are much more complicated in their gain stages. When you're dealing with an amp where the same tube is responsible for high gain stage-1 and Reverb return, or gain stage-3 (Rhythm), high gain stage 5 (lead) and effects return (V2 in a Mark IV). It can be a really tricky process. Enough to make you want to give up on it sometimes.

But when you map one out with a plan, and it works, there's nothing like the look on someone's face when they fire it up and are blown away by it. Their eyes just light up like it's Christmas morning and they're so excited, I just get a kick out of it.

So I've had my rewards already. When someone walks away, and they're proud of their amp and they have a new-found desire to play through it again, and they can't wait to show their friends, or play that next gig. That's enough for me. Still gotta pay me for the tubes though.

At the moment, I have back problems, so my 4x10 HRDV doesn't travel with me these days. I'm using Fender 85's and I just scored a Roland JC-50 for dirt cheap. So Ironically, I'm using SS amps to play out with. Go figure.

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I have band practice coming up shortly. Maybe you can answer some questions for me first.

Is this the schematic for your amp?

http://www.fenderholic.com/schem/bandma ... layout.gif

The tube functions are a little hard for me to understand when I see them on a schematic like this. (although not as hard as some others). Do I have this correct?

V1- 1st gain stage (7025)
V2- 2nd gain stage (7025)
V3- Reverb In (12at7)
V4- Reverb Out (7025)
V5- Vibrato effect (12ax7)
V6- Phase inverter (12at7)

Secondly, what sound are you looking for? Can you give me some examples of what you believe it sounds like now ( highs, mids, bass etc)? What kind of music will you be using it for etc? I need some kind of description of what end result you're trying to achieve as opposed to what it sounds like now. And also, how much you're willing to put into it. There's quite a difference in tube prices for different brands.

For example-

a Mullard CV4024 is mid priced, generally somewhere between $35-$50. It's my personal favorite 12at7. But it needs to be bought from a reputable source, because they are commonly faked, and a lot of times they're prone to microphonics. Not to mention there are crooks out there who will sell you one as NOS, but in reality it will be at the end of it's lifetime. With the bigger guns come the bigger schemes. Hard to tell something like that if you don't have a tester. So a reputable vendor is imperative.

A GE 12at7wa 6201 is not quite as smooth and illustrious as a Mullard CV4024, but they can be bought off ebay for $10-$20. They are clean sounding, dead quiet, more durable than a Mullard CV4024, haven't run across a microphonic one yet.

So you need to plan out what you want to hear for the PI, and the Reverb. I personally reccommend a GE 12at7WA (or 12at7wc) 6201 for the reverb.

I don't have a lot of experience with vintage Fender amps. From what I understand, vintage Fender amps were designed with the expectation of using GE tubes. I think if you really wanted to go for the true Fender vintage sound that Fender designed it for, you could go GE throughout the whole amp.

I'm not exactly sure if there's a distinct reason the amp calls for 7025's. I wouldn't know if putting a regular 12ax7 in it would cause it to be heavier in the white noise area without hearing it for myself.

Anyway, give me some insight as to what you want to hear, and I'll give this some thought.

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Dude...

I just typed a detailed recommendation for what you described, but I went to another site to check on something while the board timed out on me and lost the whole thing when I hit the back button.. Worst feature of any forum board= time out, log in again. I wanna beat my head in with a hammer now!!

Anyway...

I'll just explain a little later, I've been up all night after a gig. But the preamp looked like this:

V1- Sylvania/Phillips ECG 7025
V2- Mullard 7025
V3- GE 12at7wa 6201
V4- GE12at7Wa 6201
V5- GE 12ax7a
V6- GE 12at7wa 6201 or Mullard CV4024

6201= slightly darker and quieter
CV4024= slightly brighter, smoother

I'm pooped. I need rest. I'll give you my reasoning for this setup tomorrow. I think it's important to understand if you're actually going to spend money as a result of any of my advice.

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I really couldn't tell you man. maybe one of the amp gurus on here can chime in on that one. I would tend to think that as long as the tube layout is the same, then the tube functions on that schematic would be the same as well.

We played a gig with another band who's guitar player was playing through an early 70's Fender Pro Reverb. The tube layout looked exactly the same. I'll be catching up with those guys tomorrow night. I'm gonna see if I can entice him to take the covers off V3 and V6 just to see if it's sporting 12at7s in those slots. Maybe I can have him demo the amp a little to give me a better idea of the versatility of the amp.

I know it may not be exactly the same, but what are the chances of me running across a similar amp design last night? Very cool. The cosmos look like their working for you. The planets are aligned for Big Jay.

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I will say that one thing I'm still pondering is the reverb out. Generally I like using 12at7's for reverb drivers for a more manageable reverb. But in another scematic, it looks like V4 has a split function where half of the triode is working in conjunction with the reverb in. Maybe to be on the safe side, it would be best to leave V4 as a 7025. A simple GE should be just fine in that slot.

Just to let you know, generally I think 7025 tubes are a little less musical than 12ax7's and 12ax7a's. But I get wary with vintage amps to replace tube types they were originally designed for, in fear that the amp will develop more white noise hiss. The Sylvania and Mullard are two of the most musical sounding 7025s I've run across.

You'll notice by searching for Sylvania 7025's that they are long-plate tubes.



It doesn't seem to be a problem using these particular long-plates for V1. I haven't run across any that were prone to microphonics as most long-plate tubes tend to be. They're fantastic sounding 7025s. But to follow it, it's usually a good idea to use a tube with some midrange. That's the reason I think a Mullard would be a good choice to pair with it. If it turned out that the Sylvania was a little too bassy for your taste, you could always swap the two around, subdue the bass response a little, and still have a nice smooth powerful distortion. Either way, it's a very versatile combo. It can be clean and musical, and down and dirty at the same time. This should give you a classic rock sound that really kicks $@!.

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