I was reading the new issue of Premier Guitar, and the had a review of the Fender '57 Twin-Amp that opened with these lines:



And I thought, "It didn't?"

I tend to think that Fender allowed an alternative industry to grow up under its feet; of small makers spinning Leo's simple, old amp circuits into gold. By the time Fender shook themselves awake and said, "Hey, how come WE aren't building these amps?", it was too late. Clark, Allen, Victoria and two dozen others had already established a reputation for superior quality and highly musical tweaks on the old designs along with an accepted (if inflated) price structure.

It's true that Fender responded with amps that LOOK like old tweeds, but there's no more relationship between a 5E3 and a Blues Junior than between a platypus and my Uncle Bob. By the time they introduced a real tweed circuit (the '57), they brought it out at a price that would choke a Clark owner.

In fact, they seem to have introduced this amp just as the industry takes another surprising step, as boutique builders like Egnater and Bogner leverage their names by bringing superior design concepts to cheap, Chinese-made amps. Now you can buy an Egnater or a Bogner for around a grand, and while it's not P-t-P wired, it sounds good.

So what do think? Am I reading this wrong? Or am I just re-stating the painfully obvious?

It's been obvious for a long time. Fender has started producing throw away amps. Just like computers and cell phones. I doubt you'll see any of Fender's current production amps around in 35 years like my old Champ or Twin for example.

I can see the sense in letting the smaller companies get on with it for awhile. Just from a fiscal view fmic let them do all the leg work regards advertizing and generating interest in such amps. This whole vintage amp thing began sometime around 88 but realy started to take hold in the early 90's. By the time fender started producing vintage replica's the amp buying public was half ready for the inflated prices. Intrest would be high and therefore cut a lot of advertizing expense.

To my mind the trends in amp popularity shift quite drasticaly. We seem to have gone from multichannel,highgain, high wattage, all singing all dancing behemoths to shoe box with a speaker and a few valves thrown in it, in a very short space of time.

Must say im very interested in those egnater's. I need to find somewhere to try one out.

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No no and no

According to the website, Guitar Guitar in Newcastle has them (they're exclusive to GC here, but they may have wider distribution in the UK by now... they are slow to update the website). I don't want to hammer the point on this site, so I'll shut up after this, but my Rebel-20 head has been blowing my mind since I got it in December last. (looks like the also have stores in Edinburgh and Glasgow, and they sell the Egnater stuff online, too... according to their description. you get nicer tubes in the UK... over here they're loaded with Egnater spec'ed and branded Groove Tubes, but the UK models has JJ's.)

As for amp trends... yeah, I remember when to be hip, you had to had some kind of home-brew version of a Bradshaw rig: rack-mount ADA preamp, stack-o-processing, and power amp, controlled by a MIDI pedal board. Yowsah! (I was really out of it, playing through a '60s Pro Reverb in those days.)

I'm just remarking on the fact that by the time Fender got into the game, they seemed to be an also-ran with their own designs. The simplicity of tweed circuits has become so well know that guys with minimal electronics experience are daring to wire up their own 5f2a's and 5e3's. ASking over 3 large for the Twin seems salty even by boo-teek standards.

Just on a point of information, to the best of my knowledge that is correct. I believe GuitarGuitar are exclusive representatives in the UK.

The rest of this thread is way above my paygrade. I'm still trying to get over my dismay at what both of you have had to say about the Blues Junior. Still, at least I read it before buying...

Cheers - C

Hopefully, if I get some time, I'll be building a 5e3 clone sometime this year. Probably from Mission Amps. They run around $750 USD for a complete kit.

I agree 100% WITH WHAT 63supro said about 35 years from now.It seems Fender has been making quite a bit of errors for a while now and maybe someone will pay for it besides us or should I say along with us lol.As I have stated in 10 different post Fender and Gibson are not the giants they once were and all those lil companies snuck up on them with quality products from picks to strings to cables amps and guitars.The last Fender amp I bought was a blues junior and to say the least I was not that impressed so instead of running back out and paying a ton for another amp I went and picked up a used CRATE VINTAGE 50.Yes you read right for $250 I got one of the best sounding all tube amps I ever heard in my life for practicaly nothing.Now before you hurt yourself laughing someone came in my friends shop and sold it.Well one day I plug into it and cant believe my ears the tone of all my heroes in a Crate I was thinking maybe I finaly cracked but I know my ears and I bought that amp the moment I pulled the plug out and brought what felt like a safe to the basement where it sits and still amazes everyone.Now I had never heard a Crate that sounded decent let alone knock my socks off and this was 6 years ago.So I had to look it up on HARMONY CENTRAL and everyone agreed it was like some lil well kept secret that they hit the jackpot with the white vintage 50 it has a 94% rating for sound and everyone said the same thing I did.Even Paul REED Smith knows about them.So if you want an amp that is great sounding and your not going to be moving it a lot you can maybe still grab one on ebay for $200 and change and you can hear for yourself how amazing it is.I dont have a clue why Crate never had anything remotely close before or after tone wise but they got it pretty much perfect once and thats fine with me.

Hehe Fender Gibson is Coke and Pepsi all over again. people always forget there's not just Royal Crown Cola too, but 7-up, sprite, root beer, orange crush etc.

Plenty of quality products across all price ranges from many different companies now.

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

Fender, for the most part, is really about sales. They need to keep them increasing in order to remain in business. It's a big darned Company after all. When product volume is the driving force in your business model, quality has to suffer to a certain degree. Not that the amps are attrociously "bad" per se. They just aren't what they used to be.

In order to get back to the quality of "the good old days" FMIC will either have to shrink a bit or charge us waaaay too much for the amps.

I use Carvin amps, outstanding quality and a nice price point.

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"Life is like eating jalapenos. What you do today may burn your arse tomorrow"

I have been out of the amp game for a number of years until recently, but from what I've seen I would say "yes" to SlapChop's question. I know I'm always banging on about my Swart Space Tone, but it really nails everything that was good about old Fender Champs... I've heard a direct comparison where the aging Champ seemed to produce a more mellow sound overall, but I guess you could expect a new amp to have a bit more sparkle... and anyway, it all comes down to taste. $850 is quite a lot of money to spend, but for that you get point-to-point cloth-covered wiring, tube everything (including rectification), finger-jointed pine casing (just the joinery on the unfinished boxes on the website is lovely to look at), laquered tweed covering, and knobs that go to 11. It's impeccable work. You can inspect any component and find that care and thought has gone into its manufacture.

It would not be feasible for a big manufacturer to produce anything involving all that handiwork at a reasonable price, but still... many people who want a classic Fender amp but can't afford to go vintage (and who can, these days?) are going for amps from makers who are trying to do it the way Fender used to. It's a shame about the boutique prices, but I think they can be quite reasonable when you consider that you're basically commissioning a guy to build you an amp in his garage. It costs an arm and a leg to have a tradesperson come around to your house and do anything, after all.

Think about how long your boutique investment will last and be more than likely trouble free just because it is hand built with quality components, not imported caps, resistors and transformers.

It's well worth the price of admission. Or better yet build your own. I've built Champ clones for friends. It's not that hard. Mission Amps has a sweet 5e3 kit and Allen Amps has kits too. The documentation and support is awesome. You can pick up some soldering skill from building your own effects too. Check this out http://www.buildyourownclone.com/

My HRdlx is the last amp I'll ever buy from Fender and not because it's reliable either. As soon as the warranty runs out it's out the door because I won't pay to get it fixed. I won't pay 2 grand for an amp I can build for 750 bucks and probably do a better job too.

I'm hopelessly impractical when it comes to DIY... perhaps one day when I have a shed. Gotta have a shed for that stuff. Heh. I really like the idea of building my own things, though.

I heard an interview with Michael Swart (Ok, I promise I'll shut up after this) , where he said that what got him started building amps was going to see a favourite local band play out and being bowled over by the sound they were getting from their Matchless amps. Then, when he found out how much they cost, he decided he'd be better off learning to build them himself. The little Space Tone was his take on an ideal home and studio amp... it's a little loud for my particular home at the moment, but it won't always be that way. At least the rear-mounted knobs are hidden from my 18-month-old son's busy hands!