I intended to say something here, but I think I'll just go back and practice some more...

Seriously I enjoyed this thread. I'll chew on these for awhile...

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I'm not slow... and I'm not fast... just sort of halffast...

I would have to argue that the "intent" theory that we read ,from my point of view, only affects the style of the person that's playing the instrument... so you can play any instrument and it will "sound" like you.... but the sound of the instrument itself ,no matter who is playing it, is unique.... and every other effect or amp that goes with it also has a unique sound... and each one of those sounds like it does because of the components it is made of........ on a guitar the woods that are used the hardware and pickups all of it makes that guitar sound like it does....... (my opinion)

Synk, the whole thing with intent theory is that you attain a level where you wont learn much more but will hone technique thereby improving your method of delivery and in doing that tone.
Much like a martial artist will learn all the moves. My chosen style has relatively few moves roughly 10 not including positional variations. Then spend a millenia honing their delivery.

My personal belief. At times when i feel im bored with how i play i find i've improved on voicings without realizing it.

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No no and no

And on the seventh day God rested aaaahhh, job well done I thi............................tone, I forgot tone, oh my myself ? Oh well their just going to have find their own, Ive given them all different voices, languages etc etc etc

Seen this kid sitting in the street on some tv show years ago,he could only have been 12y old, all he had was a plastic bucket between his feet, a couple of sticks, one of those things you remember a la Susan Boyle, I've seen big time drummers giving it huge , sweating buckets & never came close to this kid, he could manipulate the bucket any way , squeezee it , on the kerb, of the kerb,on the paving ,off etc, I'm not saying it sounded like a full kit, it was just awsome watching this kid get every bit of tone he could find out the tools he had
It was just so refreshing to hear something played with so much passion on something so simple & basic
basically +1 with miami mike on this

Hold on ...........maybe I shoul have taken up the drums eh

Well, ther's nothing spiritual about this concept (I don't even think people possess a "spirit," so I think the entire question of spirituality is moot in the strictest sense of the term).

Except that you can easily compare people's belief in various tone myths to a sort of religion. The tenet is accepted not with evidence, but on faith, one's faith in the tenet proves one's worthiness, the tenet is defended vigorously and emotionally against all challenges... believing that nothing but an ash-bodied, maple-boarded Telecaster can sound like a Tele is a sort of dogma.

Still, think of it this way... which will bring you closer to your most complete expression of your own musicality: figuring out precisely how to engineer the perfect Strat? Or becoming mindful that everything you use to make music is at the service of your intent?

Niki really hit it on the head by staying "it's a poor workman who blames his tools."

Well... I've nothing profound to contribute right now, but I just wanted to say that I've enjoyed the read so far and I'm glad to see Adrian Belew mentioned a few times. He's been behind so much of the music I've loved ever since I started playing... my weird high-school freak-out Laurie Anderson phase, my early university flirting-with-industrial-goth Nine Inch Nails period, my life-long King Crimson-is-the-greatest-band-in-the-known-universe conviction. For me, he'd be the best example of a player with an instantly recognisable sound and the ability to place it in the service of any piece of music.

I finally got to experience a live show of his late last year... well. What can I say... music can change your life. I hadn't played electric guitar in quite some time, and the friend I went to the show with practically forced me (I'm almost terminally shy) to go up and say a few words to Mr Belew afterwards. Corny as it sounds, his parting words to me were "Keep playing, man," accompanied by a little air guitar solo -- a throwaway line from a maestro in a faintly awkward situation, perhaps, but I took it seriously. Shortly after that I bought my contentious '66 relic strat second hand, thought "Hey, there must be something about guitars on the internet these days, maybe there's a forum for me somewhere," and here you find me.

I've been playing and making artworks of one sort or another for long enough now that it's obvious I have an identity that seeks expression in various ways... but it's my identity, and while it borrows plenty from others, it's never going to be a convincing imitation. I'd be most interested to take a Belew signature fly for a spin (and as he himself says, if I feel like taking out a second mortgage I can do just that... heh... it's an interesting time to come out with such an expensive instrument), but there's no way I'm ever going to sound like him, or even as if I'd ever heard of him. And that's the way I like it... long may he and my other favourites continue to blow me away!



* If he comes back around Sydney any time soon and teases me about the relic, though, I will be upset... heh

the 7th church of tone.... well i never. In the UK if you can get 10,000 people to give one religeon then the state must accept it as valid. There was a thing during the last census about people putting Jedi on the form.
The 7th day church of tone sounds far more appealing. What do you reckon Archbishop BigJay the 1st ?

Slapchop just because you or i believe or dont believe something that doesnt make us necessarily right on any given subject. Non of us are infallible. Which is pretty much the point you were making.I just had to put that in. Im not offering an opinion just stating a broad generalized fact.

Jay its a given fact of any trade that you have to have the tools. You may see a good tradesman with old tools but never badly kept ones. My storage room is testement to this, i could buy a new jag for the stuff ive got sitting dormant at the moment. Despite many construction sites its still in great condition and would sell for a fair price.

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No no and no

While reading all of this i have realized that tone is said to be part of the players preference. While at the same time have noticed that if i play one guitar i get a completly different sound or tone than another playing the same thing. Is this what tone really is? I think tone is created by the tools not the player. Material differences in any instument will sway the player to modify its original sound with "intent". There is a large gap between true tone and modified tone which is copied by use of different tools of the trade. As far as quality of the instrument is concerned i have never played a cheapy and get the same quality sound as i would that is of better quality. In my search for my personal sound i have found that to be very true.

Even the wrong tools in the right hands has an even greater reward ie..,
the ability to improvise ,
Tone ultimatly is personal preferance, got mine as soon as I plugged my strat in for the first time, only thing I adjusted was volume .

i notice some under-the-breath implications being made here that better gear = better tone.

i somewhat agree because quality and workmanship will make a difference, cant argue that

however, i politely disagree as well, by saying that better gear is not the "be all, end all" to better tone. try taking a perfectly mastered, flawless Fender Strat made by Leo himself and all his loving care, and run it through a Marshall Plexi, '65 Twin, Dumble, etc. and hand it over to the most gifted chimpanzee you can find. let me know when he plays Little Wing and also sounds just like the record.

and speaking of quality and workmanship...kick me off the forums if you must for revealing the truth, but Fender Quality Control isn't exactly impressive these days. i have a squier strat with perfectly buffed frets, whereas i've played plenty fender's and almost cut my fingers on the frets while simply playing the guitar. pay $600+ for that? i think not.

[quote="msvolpe"]i notice some under-the-breath implications being made here that better gear = better tone.

Maybe that chimp will love it though, the tone is all his

Msvolpe that is not the underlying comment of this post at all. If anything the opposite is more prevalent as an underlying theme. Statements about good gear are repeatedly made with the emphasis being on the player not the instrument.

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No no and no

oh yes, i know. i wasn't directing toward the theme of the thread. sorry if it looked that way. i understand what this thread is about, in fact my last post was actually in support of it. (i also made an earlier post a few days back also supporting the theme.) i was talking about some posts that seemed to imply that the "intent" theme is wrong, and that gear aesthetic is the winning factor, and i was more or less defending this thread. i guess i was also blowing off steam