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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:37 am
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Yea but Muddy Waters invented electricity.


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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:42 am
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SlapChop wrote:
I think you can't call someone who assembles or tweaks solid body electrics a "luthier." A woodworker, a guitar builder, a guitar 'technician,' okay. Or, in Leo's case, a manufacturing whiz-kid and circuit designer. but a pretty far cry from a luthier.

A luthier is someone who can build a lute: i.e., an acoustic instrument. I know a guy who hand-builds exquisite parlor-sized acoustic guitars, mandolins, five-string and tenor banjos. HE'S a luthier. The guy who used to set up my Strat was a guitar tech.


I think I would have to debate this issue from the stand point that your comment implies that Leo Fender simply "assembled electric guitars" and clearly he did much more than that. Essentially, he came up with the idea of the solid body electric...he designed it, he build it and before that time, there really wasn't anything else quite like it. The term "builder" may be more appropriate than luthier but even that seems inadequate in this instance.

I would feel the need to make the comment that the term "luthier" itself was coined at a time long before "electric" instruments were around and as such I think you are splitting hairs over the definition. Even though I'm not a Gibson fan, I'm sure that a person who builds a custom Les Paul (say in Gibson's Custom Shop)...to most people such a person would be considered a luthier but your definition implies that folks at Fender (including Leo himself) would simply be builders. I think this is one of those situations where the definition needs to be adjusted to fit the times...it's no longer about simply building "acoustic" instruments, a luthier is a person who builds musical instruments and that should include electric instruments as well at least to some degree. "Building" an electric guitar can be as simple as slapping some pre-made parts together but to build a decent electric musical instrument, particularly from the ground up (err slab of wood up as it were) does require just as much knowledge and expertise as building an acoustic guitar...perhaps even more so since there are additional elements such as pickups and such to consider.

I would also state that there is a certain elegance in the simplicity of the instruments and amps that Fender created that also must be acknowledged. Here I think it's a little hard to separate the definitions of "craftsman" and "luthier". In doing so, it could imply that some intricately made instrument such as a "lute" would imply a luthier and something more simple and common such as a "guitar" would be made by a craftsman when clearly that's not the case. Companies such as Martin and Gibson did build acoustic instruments for many years that were not particularly elaborate as much as "functional" (although Gibson has certainly made some rather elaborate instruments over the years). A person such as C.F. Martin IV for example, if for no other reason than his family history, he would certainly be considered "a luthier" (if not Master Luthier) but on the fundamental side of building something like a guitar, is he really that different from the folks who build guitars at Fender, Gibson or elsewhere?

I really don't think this is something that can be defined by outdated definitions...but that's just my personal opinion.

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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:44 am
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atolleter wrote:
Yea but Muddy Waters invented electricity.


Totaly. Who needs light and heat if you cant hear rock n roll.

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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:50 am
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A master luthier? Obviously, one would have to be taught by one and/or, by having made a name for one's self through his or her own devices and end products. Either way, to my way of thinking, it is a random, yet sustained consortium of experienced, knowledgeable and demanding players who ultimately and legitimately elevate someone to the title. This person's affiliation with a school or manufacturer usually wouldn't be a major factor, prestigious as it may be. Rather, such things are presumed but the finished product is the final proof of how well the intrinsic knowledge is applied. Consequently, there is a large degree of personal skill involved as well.

Having said that, I segue to engineer vs. technician. In brief, engineers are the people who design it all, using the best scientific principles at their disposal to create something. Or, to put it another way, they design it all on paper (or nowadays, computer) and based on their calculations, their creations should and usually do work quite well. However, there are always unknowns which crop up and can't be foreseen on the drawing board. It is here where a technician, the person out in the field or 'real world', have to tweak these designs and find solutions for situations which could never be encountered by engineers in their clinical environment. Technicians do not design with their knowledge as engineers do. Rather, they apply their knowledge to make the already established product the best it can be. Or, simply for the sake of being rebellious, put something together which engineers would wince at where regardless, these 'contraptions' do in fact, work quite well (and nicely) too. Thus, Leo Fender should never be presumed to have the engineering knowledge and skills of Antonio Stradivari. But by the same token, I doubt very strongly that even if Stradivari and Leo were contemporaries, Stradivari would or could create a Telecaster. The point: Engineer and technician alike, surely have their place in this industry. Both are of vital importance but should never be presumed as interchangeable.

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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:45 am
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Solid Body Love Songs wrote:

l , bro , an electrician who loved music , the only guy that could invent the modern instrument . leo fender .


That honour actually is more aptly applied to Paul Bigsby.

Leo actually borrowed the Merle Travis guitar, for a while before he made the broadcaster.

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What Leo did was make an awesome production Guitar. He was more akin to Henry Ford than anything. he didn't invent it, but he put his know how to work, and made a viable production model. His techniques were far from anything used by established 'luthiers' , and his product was pretty far from theirs too.

I don't think he would have lost any sleep at not being called a Luthier. he was moving into new territory, and the luthiers weren't.

Don't forget that Leo was at least, if not more, innovative in his work with amplification. He was a radio tech/repairman, who started to dabble in the guitar business, and then he moved solely into that, and abandoned his prior field.

His genius came from applying modern (at the time,) industrial design ideas to the field of instrument making. his genius came precisely from not being a 'Luthier.'

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