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Post subject: PEOPLE SUCK!
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:29 pm
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Ok...please don't mind me here as I just need to vent a little. Please know this isn't aimed at -anyone- in these forums...I'm just a little frustrated and I need to let it out hopefully with some folks who have been there. This is probably going to get a tad long so, go grab a cup of coffee and a fresh pack of smokes...

Alrighty, I little back story first. Back from 1999 till early 2002 my wife and I had our own band, Harper Blue. Things had been going really well, we were doing regular gigs, had a recording project going and except for some minor band squabbles, it was all pretty good. Then in early 2002 I had been in a rather serious car accident and couldn't play for a while (I was actually the drummer at the time). After 4 months of being looped out of my mind on pain killers and another 4 months or so of physical therapy, I was starting to get back on my feet again then shortly after this, we found out my wife (and lead singer) had cancer. She's ok now and doing well but it was a 3 year battle and music just wasn't at the forefront of our priorities. Over the past couple of years I tried hooking up with a couple of bands but nothing really worked out...one band I auditioned for as a drummer for example, about half way thru the audition the bass player ended up passed out cold on the couch (too much smoke). Had another band I was in briefly that was about the same...more partying than playing.

So this last summer I had jammed with a couple of people and really started to get "the itch" again, so I went ahead and put a new band together....figured it was time. My wife started to get into it too so I brought her back in as lead singer (she also plays flute, hand percussion, a little bass, etc) and by September, things were going really strong...I had figured we could start looking for gigs by December. Well, after about a month we lost the lead guitar player. The guy works for NASA and his work schedule changed and he didn't have time for the band. We tried doing some auditions but nothing really came thru so I went ahead and started gearing the material towards 1 guitar tunes (lots of SRV stuff, etc). Then the winter weather started to hit along with the holidays and we started missing a lot of practices...if it wasn't someone snowed it then it was someone's kid's X-mas play or relatives coming in, etc.. I figured not a big deal...it happens and once we got past the holidays we could get down to some serious work. Right around X-mas, my drummer had to take a full time job as her family was having some serious financial problems. This was of course on top of her being a drum teacher and a full time mom. So after a couple of weeks, we were able to bring in a new drummer...the guy is really good and really into the material. Then over the course of January, the bass player started missing more and more practices. The guy has -6- kids, half of which are teenagers...one day he had to take one kid in on his birthday to get his temps, another day he had to cancel because the one kids car broke down and another day still he had to drive one of the kids to night classes. So just as we're getting the drummer up to speed and starting auditions again to bring in a second guitar player, the bass player quits...doesn't have the time. Now I not only need to find another guitar player but I need a bass player too (and decent bass players are always a pain in the a@@ to find around here).

Every couple of months just as things start to settle down to where we can get some serious work done, I end up right back at ground zero again! ARRRRRGGGGGGGGGGG! When I try working with "kids" (again no offense to anyone here) it's drugs, booze, party time or they just want to get out and "make lots of money" and/or get laid...the seem to forget that you need to have enough tunes to actually play a gig before you can actually play the gig! With older folks like myself (I'm 43 btw) it's either work or family issues. This don't even take into account personality issues....we had one guy (lead guitar) over last night and the guy was just one of those control mongers...wasn't really interested in what the band was doing so much as just the material that -he- wanted to play...very pushy, wasn't really paying attention and he really wasn't that great to warrant the attitude.

Also I have to say that I -hate- having to do auditions all the freakin' time. It's kind of funny really...I don't mind going out on auditions myself. I've been playing for over 25 years now. I'm comfortable with myself and my playing skills and I've been doing this long enough to know that sometimes things just don't work out...it's never personal with me. However when I have to audition other people...that really seems to be a different issue. I -know- it goes with running a band but some of the experiences I've had over the years... Once we actually auditioned a -deaf- drummer! While putting this band together I had one guy show up and about 3 songs in the guy just put his guitar down on the floor and said "I can't do this". We had another guy who was really into it but then "his wife decided that he didn't have time for it" (probably why the guy hadn't been in a band since college). Then of course there's the virtual cornucopia of people who will email me in response to my ad(s) and say "yea, yea...sounds good...I want to do this!" then never show up for the audition and are never heard from again.

What the hell ever happened to people who play music because they actually ENJOY playing music? It seems like half of the people I've screened want to get out right away and start making money but they don't want to put any effort at all into actually making the band work...they seem to think that 8 songs is enough to play all night at a bar and who cares if it sounds like crap as long as they can take home a couple of bucks at the end of the night and get a blow job after the show. Now I will admit here that I never became a musician to get "rich and famous"...I play guitar (and drums and bass and keys, etc) because I -LOVE- playing music. More over, I love being on stage and entertaining people...for me there's no better high in the world then when the band hits that groove, the crowd is into it and you can just pour it all out on stage! If I can make a little money at it, great but that's not why I play. In my mind that $50 to $100 I take home at the end of the night was simply for hauling the gear in and out of the bar! LOL!!! To me, being a musician is about the music and about doing something that I love doing...everything else comes second.

Don't get me wrong here...I'm -NOT- giving up. I -WILL- get this thing to fly eventually but some days it just feels like home dentistry would be -a lot- less painful. Trying to get "the right" people and get those people to commit to something.....oye. I mean really....is it too much to ask to have people actually show up for 1 to 2 practices a week, have them actually rehearse the material a bit and show up sober? Am I really being that picky?

Anyways, again I just needed to get that off my chest. Doesn't really change anything at all but I needed to vent a bit before I popped off and killed someone. Please just take this post as the rantings of a mad lunatic who's just gotten sick of having to deal with people flakier than himself.

Peace,
Jim


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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:45 pm
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Well I hope that helped you! I know what you mean about getting people together with the same goals and musical taste. I guess that is why great bands are few and far between. Take a deep breath and relax my friend!
Peace! :wink:


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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:47 pm
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I didn't read it all (too much), but I skimmed it a bit.

Regarding your wanting bandmates to commit to practice, you're right to a point. If they're serious, then they should commit.

My notes, though they might not follow your rant exactly, is that there should rarely be any band "practices". The practicing should be done on your own. When you get together, you're just running through the songs to tweak little things - not teach each other parts and work on getting them together. This is a huge problem with many bands. They practice forever and never do anything.

A good group of musicians will ...

1) find others that know the same songs/style
2) organize a list of songs to learn, and learn them cold on their own
3) run through them once or twice
4) are ready to gig within one or two band REHEARSALS

There is no excuse for dicking around and not learning your stuff. I, myself, do not like to go to "band practice" a ton of time when I know all my stuff, and I'm waiting for some idiot to get on the ball and do their own homework. I don't play with people like this in the first place. When I find people like that in a band, I'll either boot them, tell them to shape up, or just leave myself. But I won't put up with that.

Good musicians are hard to find. Ones that are not only proficient, but are good people to be around too. Good drummers are even harder to find.

Once you get to a semi-pro or pro level, the good ones are very apparent, and you'll find each other easily, and opportunites always come up. At least in a bigger city area with a big pool of musicians.

That might not be at all what you were referencing with your epic novel, but it's a common issue that looks like it may be tied into some of what you were talking about.

And yes, many people suck. Stupid people are all over. It's better to have a smart enemy than a stupid friend. A smart enemy - you know how to deal with. A stupid friend will back stab and make your life hell and not even know they're doing it, so it keeps happening over and over. Yet some will "put up with it" since they're "friends". That BS. Life's too short to hang with stupid friends that ruin you life in one way or there other.

The word "friends" can also easily be "band mates" in that last paragraph too.


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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:57 pm
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Music, is just like anything where people have become rich and famous doing something that some people may perceive as "not too hard to do", so you get all these people who get into it for the wrong reasons. You have kids who watch Viva La Bam, so they want to be like Bam, and they are all about everything thats related to the skateboard lifestyle, except actually skateboarding...Music is the same way...you get people who are all about the money, women, fame, drugs, or whatever they assume a certain lifestyle has easy access to, then forget that it takes hard work, talent, and a love of what you do...Most people play music because they love to play music, and making money off of something they love to do is just a bonus, but unfortunately there are people who love or want money and fame, and just see music as a means of getting it...

All I can say is, in this day and age of home recording, focus on your music, record everything you can play yourself, then if there's something you can't play, you can just have someone play to it...I stopped playing for a few years because I got tired of band divas and politics, and now am just working on writing stuff on my own, and will only play with others if its the right situation...

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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:12 pm
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Yeah, it's a pain to have to deal with people like that. I'm 19, but I totally understand your "kids" comment. All these singers and guitar players think that they are the chosen one or something and they end up with these huge egos and become control freaks. I wish I could find players myself who are open minded and who enjoy playing music as much as I do, but if you know notice, the mainstream of music today have artists that are in it for the money and less for the music. Lack of innovation, originality, and desire are all contributing factors, so now people are content with second best as long as they make lots of money and women :x I hope you find some better musicians, that's all I have to say.


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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:15 pm
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Well if you're ever in Nor Cal let me know....I'll buy you a beer. You'll find the right people. They are out there. Just keep weeding out the losers. It's only about eighteen times harder to put a decent band together, than most people think.(as you well know). I'm very fortunate to have hooked up wih all the people I've played with over the years. In my opinion band members have to be "friends" as well as musicians to make it work.

Good luck!

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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:28 pm
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That's why I only play with my family. I'm lucky to have a very musical family. The few times I played with others in bands it started off with everyone having equal say and share of any money. It soon turns into someone thinking the group can't do without them and become the self proclaimed leader. Deciding on set list, gigs,money split etc. That's when it all goes to H...! Happens all the time. I so much more enjoy playing music now! :)


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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:56 pm
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Lomitus.
First off congratulate your wife from me for beating that horrible disease.

I really know the pain your going through regarding apathetic band members. The only option for you to alleviate this problem is to raise the bar with what you already have. What i'd do is get a set list together of songs you want to gig. Sit your bassist down and ask him outright 'are you still interested?' If the first thing out of his mouth isnt yes tell him to walk and ask your wife if she could do it temporarily. You'll only need a few gigs under your belt before applicants make emselves known. Audition members then give em the list of songs you want them to learn. Tell em that rehearsal times aren't there to teach them how to play songs they can learn at home. Its there to rehearse your live performance. Any songs they dont learn they sit out.
You'll be silently stating that you want to gig and mean business. It should hopefully encourage them into action. Its a tragedy that sometimes to make a band work you have to manipulate people, but its the way it is. I get the feeling that your not too fussed about gigging, thats your prerogative but dont communicate it to other members. It wont serve any other purpose than making your life hard.

If it all goes belly up cant you get in touch with any of your old band members. It sounds like you enjoyed that band?

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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:20 pm
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dgonz wrote:
The practicing should be done on your own. When you get together, you're just running through the songs to tweak little things - not teach each other parts and work on getting them together. This is a huge problem with many bands. They practice forever and never do anything.



I absolutely agree with this 10,010%! I'm sorry if my rant seemed to insinuate otherwise. You are absolutely correct that people should do their homework and I do expect this from the people that I work with...as well as from myself. The way I will typically run a practice is in two parts...the first is running thru and/or polishing material we already know. I will allow some room here in case we need to "figure out an ending" or something but usually the first half of practice is pretty tight. Then we take a break...grab a smoke, go to the bathroom, whatever. Afterwards the second half of practice is a little looser....we jam a little, toss some ideas around for new material or originals etc.. Over all the forumla works pretty well.

That said, it's also worth mentioning that most of the stuff we do is classic rock and oldies...most of it isn't terribly complicated $@!& at all. In the case of the lead guitar player we auditioned last night, one of the tunes we were jamming around on was Clapton's "Crossroads" (our arrangement is based on the Clapton/Mayer ABC broadcast)...from the lead guitar point of view, this is NOT a complicated song. If you can improvise around an A minor pentatonic, ya just tear it up! The guy stopped playing about half way thru...just stopped. He was pretty good on the material he had "rehearsed" but really had very little ability to improvise which for us is quite critical....and I had told this guy that ahead of time. We are NOT a note for note kind of outfit. "Yea, yea...I can jam...not a problem" but when put to it, he couldn't.

As I said, the biggest problem and why things have been taking so long is that every couple of months, someone ends up quitting...either their work hours change or their family issues become a problem, etc.. The bass player we just lost...again the guy has 6 kids and he works 10-12 hours a day...I'm not even sure how he finds time to take a crap, yet he thought he could be in a band? The guy was a really good bass player and a nice guy but it seems like he really didn't think things thru before joining us. It's simply been a matter of 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

Anyways, yes you are absolutely correct in that "band time" isn't the place to be learning the material and everyone should do their homework at home. That's just not what our problem has been.


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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:29 pm
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+1 to what Niki said, congratulations to you both for getting over the troubles with your health.

In the interests of thinking laterally, just wanted to mention about a guy I saw perform in town recently, he's a solo guitarist who tours coffee shops. I have a feeling he probably has a long history of unhappy bands and not loving playing in bars, and this is the life he's settled on, but he seems to have a following and has a few CDs out - his whole apartment is a recording studio, according to his MySpace site. So he's forged his own way to have a music career and keep performing.

And then I recall a pair called Jack and Meg White who seemed to have a go of it with only guitar and drums...

So, the point is, a band doesn't necessarily have to be two guitars, bass and drums to work. If you and your wife work well together and have something to express musically, maybe that ensemble would work on its own, and you don't need the other yahoos.

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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:40 pm
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No the problem is i suspect that other members are seeing a lack of motivation towards gigging or something else that they dont like. Trust me when musicians see that they make up a million and one excuses as to why they cant do it. One thing i've learnt about musicians is that they will tell you anything other than I dont want to do it anymore. Which makes your life harder. Gigs and rehearsals aren't mutualy exclusive, neither happens without the other for long.

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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:04 pm
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nikininja wrote:
Lomitus.
First off congratulate your wife from me for beating that horrible disease.


Thank you very much for the kind words. Cancer and I are very old companions and I've been a "care taker" many times over the years. In addition to my wife, my mother is currently in her -6th- round with cancer...breast cancer 3 times, skin cancer twice and she was just diagnosed this last fall with stage 4 cancer with tumors on her liver and one lung. My father is also a lung cancer survivor and my father in law died from lung cancer. Trust me when I say, I am very pleased that my wife is a survivor.

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What i'd do is get a set list together of songs you want to gig. Sit your bassist down and ask him outright 'are you still interested?' If the first thing out of his mouth isnt yes tell him to walk and ask your wife if she could do it temporarily.


Actually the bass player is already gone. The problem is that my wife isn't proficient enough to really fill in until we find someone else...at least not and remain the lead singer at the same time. Hence why we are looking.

Quote:
You'll only need a few gigs under your belt before applicants make emselves known.


Very simply I will NOT put a show on stage unless it's reasonably professional and well polished. Something that I've learned over the years is that to do a show when the band isn't really prepared is the fastest way to cut your own throat here on the North Coast...if you suck, you'll -never- play in that bar or venue again. So here the band and the material do have to come first.

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Audition members then give em the list of songs you want them to learn. Tell em that rehearsal times aren't there to teach them how to play songs they can learn at home. Its there to rehearse your live performance. Any songs they dont learn they sit out.
You'll be silently stating that you want to gig and mean business.


Yes, I absolutely do this. As of right now we actually have about 35 tunes or so on the set list. I'm not a slave driver and I do realize that everyone has lives, so I typically expect a person to learn 5 to 8 tunes a week. Again here it's just a matter of getting the right people in who are willing to learn the tunes but don't want to rush out the door with -just- those 5 to 8 tunes and start playing right away.


Quote:
I get the feeling that your not too fussed about gigging, thats your prerogative but dont communicate it to other members. It wont serve any other purpose than making your life hard.


That's something I'll have to consider. I do want to get out and start doing gigs but again I won't do it unless everything is reasonably professional. My attitude is that if it only takes 2 months to put things together, great...if it takes 6 months, then that's what it takes. Up till now I have been making a point of telling people this as I do want people that are again willing to "commit" but I'll chew on this one a bit more.


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If it all goes belly up cant you get in touch with any of your old band members. It sounds like you enjoyed that band?


Dude...I wish! LOL!!! My former lead guitar player moved out of state, the former rhythm guitar player was in rehab for heroine addiction last time I heard and I have no idea at all how to get a hold of my former bass player.....and believe me, I wish I could get that guy back! Unfortunately, I'm pretty stuck with doing things "from scratch" as it were.


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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:16 pm
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Your story sounds like a chunk of my playing history.

Here's just another one of 'those' horror stories: After like a year of FINALLY piecing together dependable and accomplished players to form what was truly a fantastic band, it looked like things were finally happening. We had plenty of bookings, a nice following, all the right stuff. No drama, no BS except...

The keyboard player's wife used to show up frequently at our rehearsals, putting us all on edge. She didn't even come with him. She came unannounced, straight from her job. She felt her presence and 'input' would make things run more efficiently because she wanted to get her husband home as soon as possible. Naturally, we all knew she didn't want her husband in the band in the first place and she had no qualms about reminding us of this. We, for the most part, tolerated her because her husband was dedicated, easy going, always came on time and prepared, a great player, great guy, etc, etc.

Anyone who has or has had a keyboard player in their band knows that a lot of their band's repertoire has significant piano and/or organ parts.

We were rehearsing for a major gig which was only days away. This one night the keyboard player's wife arrived in a singularly foul mood, far worse than her usual one. She stands up between songs and announces to him in front of us all, and I quote, "It's your organ or my organ, take your choice, once and for all!" He immediately looked at the floor, proceeded to pack up his stuff and left on the spot. No further words were exchanged. She thoroughly emasculated this poor slob in front of us all. Believe me, he, nor the rest of the band needed or deserved this. We all stood there silent and stunned until...

Our singer breaks this mood by announcing that she's got a new boyfriend where they go bicycle riding on Sundays for the better part of the day and so, any future gigs will have to avoid any conflict with this. Or to be more specific, she will no long do a Saturday night gig or any Sunday gig at all from now on. And here's the clincher: We all knew she was for whatever reason, 'secretly' an item with our drummer!

At this point, I got so fed up with all of it including having to be some sort of disciplinarian and social worker that I simply put my guitar in the case, and quietly announced, "I quit".

It took me decades to finally come to the point of realization that in my circles, for better or worse, there's only worse. The grief was always outweighing the enjoyment and so, I had to ask myself the question, Why do I continually torture myself for a diminishing return? So, after the above episode, I stopped playing in bands and only selectively do gigs or sessions when someone calls me. The irony here is that they are obviously still, many bands having conflicts with their 'usual' guitarist or bassist and that's why I get the call. Now, I show up for a rehearsal or two (thoroughly prepared and on time, of course), do the job, get my kicks and GET PAID, DRAMA FREE!

NEVER AGAIN will I be a full time member of a band! I go in as the, "hired help", do my job to the best of my ability and when the next call comes, I either accept it or reject it depending on the circumstances; no stress, no grief. You might want to try this avenue.

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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:34 pm
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Yeah... my situation isn't too similiar, but I am in a band that is having some problems, and I know it's not going to go far. I need to quit it, but the guys in it are actually nice, and I don't have the heart.

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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:46 pm
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I fully understand that performance quality is a prerequisite over in the US I've firsthand experience of it way out west. The USA and Japan are all alot more demanding than the UK or Europe are. Whether that be bar bands or venue bands. Its a shame that most musicians are dreamers that need bringing down to earth sometimes. Thats why i think giving a unexperienced muso a deadline to hit can work to get them motivated. Still its your situation and you will control it in a way that makes you feel happiest. I quit gigging 3 years ago simply because i couldnt stand wetnursing band members anymore. Its a sad fact of the industry every band needs a mommy figure. Filling that role got me as wound up as you are/were.
If you get chance take some time to visit some studio's, a lot of musicians leave contact details at them. You generaly have to ask though.
Also keep bumping a ad in the bassist section of the forums. Your gonna get lucky one day. A good bassist with a sense of melody and the ability to adapt that to rhythm is a thing to be treasured.

Hope you find one soon.

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