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Post subject: Slave coils
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:27 am
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Last edited by rdclmn7 on Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Slave coils
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:08 am
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rdclmn7 wrote:
A friend of mine had lent me his strat for the last 4 years before I wuld find myself back in the states.
He in turn had a mad guitarist friend who supposedly boosted his pickup output by tapping into a 12v car battery.(No, it wasn't me...)

When I started to use his guitar, I ended pulling out the poles for two of the three humbuckers, leaving me with just a hot bridge pickup.
The immediate result was a thinner sound with a little 60hz hum.

So, the key is the output from two coils, eack with poles.
If you have two single coils, anything like 2 & 4 of 5, you get that quackish tone that with overdrive sounds lik Brian May.
The problem is that you lose output because of the same two sets close to the strings.
If you have a reverse polarity coil, you add the output of another and the noise dissapears. The problem is now you might have more output, but you lose clarity.

So, how do you get clear, noiseless sound?
You slave a reverse-polarity coil that is conected yet attached to the body.
Being that there is no output to change your sound, there is no change to your output, tone, or noise.

R7 you must be a genius cause' i have no idea how you figured that all out. my input: reputation wise fender , seymour duncan , dimarzio , emg all make strat replacement pickups i'm a bass player with no strat (love to have one some day) some strat players around here use mighty mite replacement pickups for the strat they are cheap and hot don't know how much noise they make you're always better off with fender, if money is the issue and you can take the risk let me know how many fuses you blow with the mighty's.

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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:05 am
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RDCLMN7 do you mean like a dummycoil? I only really use position 2 on my strat and have to late been disatisfied with both SCN's and vintage noiseless in that position. They both seem excessively weak when combined in positions 2&4 yet yield a very flavoured character. Any info on making a dummycoil would be usefull im on the verge of going back to traditional singlecoils.

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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:54 pm
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I found and while looking at the other designs out there, I realized that in the process, I figured out the what the other guys have done and how they did it.

The equivalent in the software industry is to get some techs to work out results while hammering out code isolated from propietary software.
It amounts to this, unless I tell you how they did it and whats under the hood, its called either white-room or white labbing(?).

So, easing myself out of a real knee-jerk reaction, I'll just continue the original idea.

Ok, the first observation was that if I took out half of the poles of a humbucker(nov 1981), you have two coils, one set of poles - you have a coil that does nothing, you get a single-coil sound.
Dummy coils don't do anything.
Its not the coil, its both coils and wire that cancel out the noise.

I had already done the experiment in 1996 when I just hot-wired a rythym
pickup to a bridge pickup, each with opposite polarity to each other.
It had deeper lows than a bridge pickup, and had higher highs than a rythym pickup, - without noise.

Ok, this is what has to happen;
If you get all negative leads to connect to the same reversed coil before reaching the rest of the system. That same coil does not even have to be exposed to the strings, just chuck it under the pickguard.
You get the following;
Bridge H
Bridge + Middle - quack
Middle H
Middle and Rythym - quack
Rythym, H

I observed i9t in 1981, I proved it could be done in 1996.
Have fun.


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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:30 pm
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Can i come live with you for awhile? i need educating. So you can by stripping part of the other coil of a humbucker acheive a singlecoil'esque tone without gaining hum and acheive a good result of hum cancelling in other positions relating to that or those stripped pickups too.

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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:45 pm
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nikininja wrote:
Can i come live with you for awhile? i need educating. So you can by stripping part of the other coil of a humbucker acheive a singlecoil'esque tone without gaining hum and acheive a good result of hum cancelling in other positions relating to that or those stripped pickups too.


A dummy coil as described is simply a reverse wound coil to that of the 'active' one. The dummy has no polepieces and can be wired in either series or parallel with the other coil with polepieces. The dummy will work in conjunction with the other coil with the polepieces but because it of itself, has no polepieces, it will not pick up the strings vibration yet will still buck hum. The closer the dummy coil is to the DC resistance of the 'active' coil, the more profound the humbucking effect. The only drawback to this is say on a Strat, when two of the 'active' coils are on, (bridge and middle, for example), the dummy coil will not be totally humbucking as the DC resistance of the two 'active' pickups in parallel is now mismatched with that of the dummy. Consequently, the dummy will then only reduce the hum.

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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:53 pm
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So if its placed far enough away you get mildly bucked sounds in 1,3&5 and regular sounds in 2&4. Would it be worth adapting it to a effect pedal format with a hardwired bypass? Would that give you the on/off ability were you to wire the mid pickup rwrp?

Trust me i know nothing of electrics but love to ponder ideas.

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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:36 pm
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nikininja wrote:
So if its placed far enough away you get mildly bucked sounds in 1,3&5 and regular sounds in 2&4. Would it be worth adapting it to a effect pedal format with a hardwired bypass? Would that give you the on/off ability were you to wire the mid pickup rwrp?

Trust me i know nothing of electrics but love to ponder ideas.


Distance has nothing to do with it. It is the paired coils' winding direction which must be opposing and the DC resistance of both coils being as close as possible.

That's the principle behind having the RW/RP in the middle position of a Strat.

I've seen both: Players have pedals for this purpose and players having a dummy coil installed in their guitars, some even adding a mini-switch to add or remove the dummy coil on command. And then there's the outright, preamped electronic gizmos like John Suhr makes which senses and matches the DC resistance of the active coil to his dummy coil.

Note: In this context, when I say, "active coil", I do not mean preamped, I merely mean the 'normal' one which is picking up the strings' vibration vs. the dummy coil which does not.

Is any of the above worth all this effort? Well, the immediate argument which comes to mind is, when someone says they 100% love everything about their pickups but the hum, life's experiences should have taught everyone by now that in life, you get nothing for free. Here's your proof: In this particular situation what happens is, if you hook up ANY single coil to ANY kind of humbucking system, the frequency response of the normal coil is altered and compressed to a degree along with the perceived output due to this shift in the frequency response. Hence, this begs the original question: Is it all worth the effort?

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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:56 pm
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duly noted. As are your commnets on playing canceling out hum at the time of playing. Which in every possible context have been a breath of fresh air. No one wants squealing obnoxios noise when they stop playing and mastering volume goes far more for that than hb's ever could.

Truely a dilema the only feasible option is a kill switch.

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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:17 am
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No kill switch, a bypass will do.
The key observations are;
1. Unscrewing theo poles on one of the coils will give you the characteristic single-coil sound with noise.
2. Reverse coils are routinely connected with ordinary single-coils separated by some distance.
3. There is no reason to believe it won't work.
between salesmen, jaded customers, gullible customers that don't research or try things out on their own, or the guy that has actually gotten dirty fingernails, I'll choose the guy with dirty fingernails.
4. The only way to disprove it goes beyond ignoring what is already established, its an exercise in denial, its an unwillingness to prove it, and only serves to supply a steady stream of misinformed customers to those sharks that will say anything to sell you something that they can't explain.
5. Pickups;
Coil housing
Wire coil
Pole pieces
Why do we need to speculate on inductance, henrys, resistence and other phantasmagorical entities when its just a matter of exploring options, connecting them and turning on the amp?
6. What would you prefer?
Slamming down some bucks, routing your pickguard and body and still end up with hum?
Or, with the additional coil you get all three coils to work, providing three humbucking settings instead of just one or two.

The only thing that an empty coil does is add resistence and/or more noise.
You don't get rid of the noise unless you have two sets of magnets.


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:09 pm
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There are two manufacturers and counting that use the same idea with certain details both obscured and black-boxed in an effort to hide technology that you can do with any oddball single-coil for a lot less than $300 a pop.
I'll amuse myself by tracking how many others are ripping you off.


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Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:50 am
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After reading this i've stripped the polepieces from a old charvel SC. Im gonna tinker with it this week and try and wire it into a pedal housing.

I'll let you know how it turns out.

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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:22 am
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No, don't do it.
Taking half the poles was for a humbucker.
You only have to reverse the leads on a single coil.


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