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Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:45 am
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A Cyber-Twin has both and can teach you many of the secrets of the tone-universe.


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Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:53 am
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I have owned both. When I had solid state amps I thought they sounded great, were cheaper and offered more for the money. But my idea of a tube amp was something that was a one trick pony. Then I discovered tube preamps, and could not believe how much more natural they sounded and how the distortions were closer to my favorite bands sounds, if not just like them. This was using solid state power amps with tube pre's. Then I went to tube power as well, and it opened up my sound even more. The notes just seem bigger

Transistors do sound cold, because they generally replicate the input to them. They do not add color. This is why a tube preamp can go a long way to fatten ad warm your sound. Then to top it off, a tube power amp colors the sound further. My tube amps when compared to my solid state amps sound larger, fatter and more natural. Solid state harmonics just sound squealy and thin instead of screaming and natural like tubes.

In addition, I get more volume at lower wattage with a tube amp. My mesa 50/50 seems twice as loud as my old ADA Microtube 200 at half the wattage.

Finally, no matter what kind of preamp you use, you cannot match the sound of a cranked 6l6 or el34 tube power section. Smaller tubes just don't do it as well in my opinion. I have dialed up clean tones in my preamp and cranked the power section of my amp to ear bleeding levels, and the tone was amazing, but i could only stand it for a couple of minutes. My ears were ringing big time after a very short time. For practice a high gain tube preamp does great. The is a responsiveness to tube amps as well, a touch sensativity that I love as well.

With that, for practice, I have been very happy using a solid state amp powered by a tube preamp

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1. mid 70's Ventura MIJ Gibson l6-s clone (Pre-lawsuit) in Black with Rosewood FB and EMG 81 BR/ 85 Neck
2. ESP KH2 Neck Thru
3. 2008 Am Std Strat in 3 tone sunburst


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Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:57 pm
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^^^ Absolutely right. I agree with all that shizzle.


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Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:19 pm
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If you're going to catch some playing time between changing diapers for the kids, transistor amps are crucial. No warm up, low power, not too loud, and as on the Gdec modeled sound to mimic a tube. Then, when you have a little time and you can turn it up a bit, you get to bring on the tube amp and hear the real thing. I'm not surprised Trower used a Blues Junior on his last album (with another amp also) because they just sound so good.

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Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:42 pm
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firstrat wrote:
I have owned both. When I had solid state amps I thought they sounded great, were cheaper and offered more for the money. But my idea of a tube amp was something that was a one trick pony. Then I discovered tube preamps, and could not believe how much more natural they sounded and how the distortions were closer to my favorite bands sounds, if not just like them. This was using solid state power amps with tube pre's. Then I went to tube power as well, and it opened up my sound even more. The notes just seem bigger

Transistors do sound cold, because they generally replicate the input to them. They do not add color. This is why a tube preamp can go a long way to fatten ad warm your sound. Then to top it off, a tube power amp colors the sound further. My tube amps when compared to my solid state amps sound larger, fatter and more natural. Solid state harmonics just sound squealy and thin instead of screaming and natural like tubes.

In addition, I get more volume at lower wattage with a tube amp. My mesa 50/50 seems twice as loud as my old ADA Microtube 200 at half the wattage.

Finally, no matter what kind of preamp you use, you cannot match the sound of a cranked 6l6 or el34 tube power section. Smaller tubes just don't do it as well in my opinion. I have dialed up clean tones in my preamp and cranked the power section of my amp to ear bleeding levels, and the tone was amazing, but i could only stand it for a couple of minutes. My ears were ringing big time after a very short time. For practice a high gain tube preamp does great. The is a responsiveness to tube amps as well, a touch sensativity that I love as well.

With that, for practice, I have been very happy using a solid state amp powered by a tube preamp


Good description, I agree!!


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Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:24 pm
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Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:51 pm
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Location: souderton pa.
there are some awesome transisters out there i have both
and i use both love them both.


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Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:07 am
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You can get some great tone out of solid state, too.

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Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:18 pm
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I have both, a Fender Bluesdeville tube and a Marshall mg half stack ss.
I love both. One thing about the Marshall is, it as onboard effects, which I must add, are very good, so it saves me getting the pedals out, apart from the wah...... :D


Last edited by Rhumba on Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:28 pm
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tube is softer and gives a more precise tone and it's much, much louder than transistors. For ex. 50 watt tube amp=100 watt transistor or more.

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Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:18 pm
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Tube amps are the way to go, except that they may need more maintenance than solid state.

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Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:05 pm
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To get the full range of tonal quality out of a tube amp it needs to be turned up pretty loud…that is great for guys playing arenas and such but for the average Joe it just don’t work well..I need something that will sound the same at low volume in my bed room and at higher volume on the weekends in a bar or club. Sure I would love to have a tube set up again, but to be truthful it just don’t make particle cense. Tube amps are ungodly expensive and need too much volume to achieve what the tube really can accomplish. Most pros even realize this and have switched to 50 watt models to compensate for this…Yes solid state is not as warm as tubes but I need to achieve the same sounds live as I do in a practice situation. Solid state is more low MX , less weight, and way less money…..on the occasion I do play a bigger venue, it will still crank up and it sounds the same as it did in my garage the day before only louder. Some day if I ever play in Black Label Society, or Slip knot, I may pick up a tube rig..until then I just don’t need the raw power of a JCM800 at 10 to get my full gain potential. Bragging rights just don’t mean that much to me……

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Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:06 am
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wtcumm00 wrote:
To get the full range of tonal quality out of a tube amp it needs to be turned up pretty loud…that is great for guys playing arenas and such but for the average Joe it just don’t work well..I need something that will sound the same at low volume in my bed room and at higher volume on the weekends in a bar or club. Sure I would love to have a tube set up again, but to be truthful it just don’t make particle cense. Tube amps are ungodly expensive and need too much volume to achieve what the tube really can accomplish. Most pros even realize this and have switched to 50 watt models to compensate for this…Yes solid state is not as warm as tubes but I need to achieve the same sounds live as I do in a practice situation. Solid state is more low MX , less weight, and way less money…..on the occasion I do play a bigger venue, it will still crank up and it sounds the same as it did in my garage the day before only louder. Some day if I ever play in Black Label Society, or Slip knot, I may pick up a tube rig..until then I just don’t need the raw power of a JCM800 at 10 to get my full gain potential. Bragging rights just don’t mean that much to me……


Ya know I hear this argument a lot, but it does not hold water to me. I play on an all tube half stack for practice, 50W per side. I turn the power amp to about 2 or 3 and then turn down the output on the preamp to practice level. It still sounds better to me than my solid state amps. Granted that the power tubes are not working to their potential, but the tube preamp is, and sounds better than solid state pre's to me. Also the tube power section still seems to add more warmth at low levels than solid state power amps do.

However, my rack setup is more optimized for this than a tube head or combo though since my preamp has a couple of master level controls that would not be found on a head or combo setup. I am not sure why these types of setups have gone to the way side, just because a head or combo is easier to use. Does anyone care about flexibility anymore?

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Guitars:
1. mid 70's Ventura MIJ Gibson l6-s clone (Pre-lawsuit) in Black with Rosewood FB and EMG 81 BR/ 85 Neck
2. ESP KH2 Neck Thru
3. 2008 Am Std Strat in 3 tone sunburst


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Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:25 pm
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If you have separate pre and power volume on your tube amp, you win. My only tube amp is a 76 Champ and it will give me NICE gain at a high volume (and believe me this 6 watt is loud in a small package). It is really nice though if it is miked.
My regular solid state amp is a Princeton Chorus (Oregon made), and it will give lots of different tones. It has great gain at any level, but it just doesn't have that tube tone I want. If you get a nice tube amp, you're in business. Its worth a try and will pay off if you give it a chance.


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Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:29 am
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Sure, tube amps sound "best" when the power tubes are pushed, but I've never had any problem getting an outstanding (and much better than SS) tone from a good 50-watt tube combo at any practice levels.

I have a few amps, and the main, a 50-watt 1x12 Mesa Rectoverb, is used for practices, to recording, to small gigs up to outdoor festivals and arenas. For the idiots that want to get a 300-watt full stack to look cool playing dive bars, yeah - that's way too much. For anything louder than a 50 watt tube combo will get (and they can get LOUD), you'll be miking it anyway to mix the sound better, so anything bigger is a waste of time, space and back pain.

Tube amps aren't ridiculously expensive, unless you're talking about a custom boutique amp. A little over a grand can get you a great amp that will last pretty much a lifetime, about the same as you'd pay for a good guitar that will last just as long - if you're serious about playing.

And for ANYONE serious about their playing and their tone, don't fool yourself into thinking that shelling out money for a top notch guitar and playing it through a student amp is the way to go. If you're not going to buy a good amp, you might as well save the money and get the cheaper guitar as well. It's like putting on a tuxedo, but thinking its ok to wear your Payless sandals with it.


Last edited by dgonz on Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:03 pm
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I have one of each for guitar and the goods and bads have been pretty well covered already. For classic blues, roots, old school rock, I plug into the tube amp (Fender Super 210); for modern stuff, I use the Line6 DuoVerb. Pound for pound, the Duoverb has more power (100W vs 65) then the Super 210 and it can get gawdawful loud. At low volumes (jazz club for instance), though, the tube does a better job.

The bass arena is a whole different story, considering the extreme cost of all tube bass rigs. That's been a solid state arena for years and there, I almost always use a tube preamp. Of late, I've been using a Grant Fidelity preamp -- the two tubes and in the effects loop seem to make quite a noticeable difference. I still don't get all that fuzzy warm of my old Bassman 50W head, but I get some of it and the Bassman 210/250 I'm using is loud enough to be heard.

So in the bass world, unless perhaps you're trying for pure metal or other sound that grew up with solid state "only" bass amps, I suggest people try out a tube pre.


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