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Post subject: Persecuted musicians??? 696
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:00 am
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`A recent article in 'Guitarist magazine'

"Big brother is watching musicians in London. The metropolitan Police will soon be demanding venues in the capital complete a eight page form on personal information of musicians if they want to host live music in the city. And there are fears the policy will spread nationwide.
Form 696 requires licensees to reveal a host of personal information about musicians who wish to perform at their venue. The move has already prompted the launch of an online petition http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Scrapthe696/ from musicians who see this as a unprecedented and unjustified invasion of their privacy.
The Musicians Union has also been quick to vent its dismay. "We are extremely alarmed at the Metropolitan Police's requirement that venues should complete Form 696 prior to live music performance," MU assistant general secretary Horace Trubridge told 'Guitarist'. "Amongst other things the form demands that liscensees give police the names, aliases, addresses and phone numbers of all musicians and other performers appearing at their venue. And most worryingly the ethnic background of the likely audience. We resent the implication that musicians are doing something wrong by performing, and the MU is currently seeking legal advice on whether the form can be challenged on data protection or human rights grounds."
Faliure to comply with the demands of form 696 could result in loss of liscence or a fine or even imprisonment.
Is this bureaucracy gone too far? The police say they need the information to establish which acts and venues attract troublemakers, and to make sure their resources are invested efficienntly to make venues safe. "It's not about being risk averse, it's about managing the risk." Detective chief superintendant Richard Martin head of the Met's pubs and vice squad told the Independant newspaper.
It is speculated that the genesis of the form dates back to 2006 when incidents involving firearms at a few live music events prompted concern.
The potential though is for a increasingly prohibive situation where venues could feel discouraged from promoting live music.

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Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:02 am
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Please do not sign the petition unless you are a British citizen or a citizen of the commonwealth.

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Post subject: Re: Persecuted musicians??? 696
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:10 am
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nikininja wrote:
`"The police say they need the information to establish which acts and venues attract troublemakers, and to make sure their resources are invested efficienntly to make venues safe. "It's not about being risk averse, it's about managing the risk." Detective chief superintendant Richard Martin head of the Met's pubs and vice squad told the Independant newspaper."


It doesn't matter what the intended reason for the form, it is still a violation of civil rights. And the potential for it being misused is tremendous! Talk about Big Brother is watching!

Remember that knowledge is power!

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Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:19 am
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Unfortunatley BMC Britan has nowhere near the level of freedom as other countries. We live under a monarchy, freedom is not the rule of thumb here. What is particularly worrying is the Met's intrest in the ethnicity of the audiences. The metropolitan police dont have a good reputation for racial equality.

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Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:30 am
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maybe they should concern themselves more with soccer games ,it seems large sports venues would have more chance for conflict then small music clubs .oh well ,our country sometimes has a way of making it hard on the small business also.good luck with that one UK folks .please fight the good fight because I can see that one comming here ,off subject but wait till europe institutes the photo enforcement cameras on the roadways thats a nightmare and only designed as a state revenue enhancer,actually causes more accidents.


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Post subject: Re: Persecuted musicians??? 696
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:09 am
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nikininja wrote:
It is speculated that the genesis of the form dates back to 2006 when incidents involving firearms at a few live music events prompted concern.


Actually, that's happened a couple of times at clubs in my immediate area (South East London). Lunatic hoods have got hold of guns and taken them clubbing, just in case they need to shoot someone that night. Somebody opened up in a club round the corner from my house with a semi-automatic: people hurt but amazingly nobody killed.

But none of that had anything to do with the musicians on stage. Why on earth should they be crossexamined?

Whether it's music in clubs, chips in our bins checking what we throw away, or cameras on our roads (which we've had for many years, Gratz): our authorities think their job is to check up on us and keep us in line by any means they can come up with.

Unlike Niki I feel perfectly free - so far. But the price of that is everlasting vigilance, most paricularly over governments.

Cheers - C

PS Hi Gratz: don't seem to have seen you around for a while. Hope you're well...?


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Post subject: Invasion of privacy
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:21 am
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I agree with you Niki. However if you have anything to do with the petition, you need to be aware that online petitions are worthless. They rarely get to the people they need to get to and there is no way to verify that the signatures are genuine. Get a real petition started with real signatures and deliver it to the people it needs to go to. Good luck.

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Post subject: Re: Invasion of privacy
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:31 am
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bigfrank wrote:
I agree with you Niki. However if you have anything to do with the petition, you need to be aware that online petitions are worthless. They rarely get to the people they need to get to and there is no way to verify that the signatures are genuine. Get a real petition started with real signatures and deliver it to the people it needs to go to. Good luck.


Hi Frank: actually, those online petitions are interesting. Our previous Prime Minister, Tony Blair, set those things up on the 10 Downing Street website as a kind of folksy "we're listening to you" type gesture. And then was dismayed to find that people took them very seriously and signed one or two of them in their millions. So the government then had to make a show of taking notice of them - much to their private annoyance.

They discovered they'd made a PR rod for their own back and so far haven't found a way of sneaking away from their creation.

There is software that stops multiple signatures from the same computer and spot other kinds of vote rigging tricks. Which is hardly foolproof, I know, but goes a little way.

It ain't going to change anything by itself, but it maybe makes a small difference...

Cheers - C


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Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:35 am
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<gets up on soap box>
The music industry always seems to be an easy target for politicians trying to score some points. Since rock musicians have the stereotype of being 'long haired and anti establishment' the are easy targets. Sports stars tend to get an easy pass, because of the out of date image of the clean cut hard worker.

Really, aside from gary glitter and Phil Spectre the celebrity news stories of rape, murder, gun play, drug busts etc. feature way more athletes than musicians. more and more actors are picked up on drunk driving and cocaine charges, yet since for the most part they are 'the beautiful people' the whole industry doesn't get tarnished in the same way.

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Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:11 am
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Tony blair was a failiure in every way. From his blatant ignorance to the european import laws that he signed us up to and the 2 resulting £6million fines that the british public had to pay. To his sicophantic pandering to Bush. Does anyone remember the laws he tried to get passed to tax even rarely gigging musicians on their earnings (£50 per band if your lucky, in some cases). Which is what i believe is the forerunner to this bill. This so called guitarist didnt even have the wherewithall not to alienate voters he tried to win with his guitar playing promo shots.

Ceri i remember those 2 petitions, doesnt the express or daily mail still have a regular petition about fuel tax? Remember the fuel tax protests where lionel blair threatened the protesters with police action. Some democracy we live in.

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