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Post subject: Beginner question about the REAL tabs
Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:10 pm
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So, as you all know, I just started learning in September, so I'm still quite a beginner. And I have a question about the difference between what they tell beginners and the REAL way that guitarists play guitar.

Specifically, let's focus on "Twist and Shout." I know that this is a simple I-IV-V song. On a list of "open chord songs" my teacher gave me, the chords are listed as C, F, G. But having just done a tiny bit of Googling, I know you can also play it with D, G, A7, or D, G, A, or etc.

The reason I was Googling in the first place is that I was having trouble getting from open G to open F and staying in rhythm. So, to get the real answer, I decided to turn to the most magical tool in the kit of the beginner in this internet age - YouTube.

In the video from Shea Stadium: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6TIEkB4_F8
during the break at about 1:14, you can see George Harrison's left hand, and he's playing nothing like any of the tabs above. It's something way up the neck that I can't make out, and then two E-shape bar chords I think. And it looks much easier to do at speed and in rhythm.

So, experienced guitar players, what is the secret? What do real guitarists actually play? Are open chords just something they teach beginners so we can get a feeling of accomplishment right away, but no one actually uses them?

I feel I am ready to receive this knowledge! But if I need to go spend some time polishing my car before I have earned the right to know it (wax on, wax off), let me know and I will do so.

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Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:17 pm
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wow, according to you definition of the word beginner, I'm not a beginner anymore! ka-ching!

anyways, have you noticed that from a C to an F is exactly as many steps on your guitar as from a D to a G? this means it's just another hight you play the song in. The only way you can find the "original" chords of the song for sure is by listening to the song and finding it out for yourself.

What you could do is play the C F G version, wait sometime, watch spongebob, whatever, then play the D G A version. You'll find that whithout relation to some key, it will sound exactly the same.

It could very well be that he plays bar chords. That's more the "electric guitar way". But also on an electric guitar, open chords sound warmer, and you can screw around with them more, because you use less fingers.

The reason you, and most other people begin with open chords is that they teach you the guitar basics, switching faster, and because a bar is usually harder.

I use both bar chords and open chords, but everyone should really decide for themselves what they like.

Anyway, at this period of learning to play the guitar, you shouldn't start kicking the system(yet). you can do that enough when you start improvising. Just listen to your guitar teacher, to learn the basics, but ask, ask, ask, ask, and ask some more! you're guitar teacher is probably an experienced player too!

polishing never hurts. Good luck with your open chords.


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Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:57 pm
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You'll be using Open Chords for as long as you play the guitar. Everyone from Brian May to James Hetfield to George Harrison to Andres Segovia uses Open Chords, that's why they're taught first.

Learning Music is like learning a language, Open Chords are one of the Roots of the Language. One of the first things we learn how to say is "Yes" and "No". Later we learn to say "Absolutly", "Sure", "Negative", "Nope", and stuff, but sometimes all you need is a simple "Yes" or "No".

Take Led Zeppelin's album Houses of the Holy. It has "The Crunge" which doesn't have a normal Chord or Run in it anywhere, "The Song Remains The Same" with it's fast tremelo picking and all kinds of crazy substitute chords, and "Over The Hills and Far Away" which is based on Open G and Open D.

About going from G to F, keep at it, you'll get it. However, Open F is a misnomer as there are no Open strings in an F Chord. That chord shape is the E chord barred up 1 fret.

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Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:57 pm
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Sure in one sense, open chords are for beginners but they also have a unique sound. Call it a "country" or "folk" or early rock sound if you want, but they tend to ring more than barre chords. No question though that you can play patterns faster by barring -- you're sliding up and down the neck (often) and possibly only moving a couple of fingers instead of all your fingers to a new position.

Still, the open chords are at the "root" of barre patterns so if you master them and know the notes in the open position, the theory of the rest becomes clearer.

In any event, I've played for 35+ years and I still use open chords when I'm looking for that particular sound. For instance, playing blues with open chords instead of the typical barred patterns gives you a more rural, old time tone. It sets a whole different feel and mood -- and it also tends to highlight the work you put into practicing accurately hitting each note!


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Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:12 pm
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Ellen,
Your teacher will be showing you what you need to learn. Persevere with it please, it will be better for you in the long run. Any idiot that knows a barre chord can slide it up and down the neck, thats why most of us do it. Its easy.
A good grounding in chord changes is a must for any player, stick with it.

For the record. In that vid george looks to be playing a 3 string barre of D at the 7th, then a bit of melody lead into the G then A.

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Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:33 pm
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Thank you everyone!

My teacher's been on vacation and it's been almost a month since my last lesson, so I really appreciate all of you stepping in to pinch-hit for him. If he were here he would tell you that I always ask lots and lots of questions, I come in with a big list written down every time. I will keep working on getting those chords under my fingers, and will try to be patient!

And thank you Jerm for letting me know the true secret for making progress - more Spongebob!

:)

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Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:07 pm
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philip602 wrote:
Sure in one sense, open chords are for beginners but they also have a unique sound ... they tend to ring more than barre chords ... playing blues with open chords instead of the typical barred patterns gives you a more rural, old time tone. It sets a whole different feel and mood


This is exactly the way I view it. Open chords are simply another brush in your paint box - another tool to get a more versatile tone. Use a barre or open chord depending on the sound you want.

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Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:35 am
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EllenW wrote:
Thank you everyone!

My teacher's been on vacation and it's been almost a month since my last lesson, so I really appreciate all of you stepping in to pinch-hit for him. If he were here he would tell you that I always ask lots and lots of questions, I come in with a big list written down every time. I will keep working on getting those chords under my fingers, and will try to be patient!

And thank you Jerm for letting me know the true secret for making progress - more Spongebob!

:)


haha, that's the spirit!
if you've reached the point when your teacher teaches you bar chords, or a scale to improvise in, this topic might help you "notes on your guitar and a minor scale".
if you have any more questions, you can always ask them on these forums, at least that's my experience. I ask lots of questions too. it's real useful.

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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:10 am
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Same as what almost everyone else has said. There are many different ways to play the same song. You find what works for you and go with it. Yes you need to learn the open chords. Yes you need to learn (and practice) scales. It's all part of becoming a skilled musician.

If you're having trouble going from G to C try a different fingering for G (there's one where your hand is in almost the same shape as C so all yoiu have to do is move your fingers over :D

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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:40 am
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Hi Ellen. 'Less my eyes deceive me the chord at 1.14 is A7 barred at the fifth fret. His pinky is his holding the second string at the eighth fret - G (which is the flat seventh of the A chord).

Looks to me like he's sliding up from to that A7 from G7, which is the same shape a tone (two frets) lower. But I'm not quite sure how he's fingering the D chord...?

BTW, regarding the first post, G to F can also be achieved by playing G with an F shape and sliding it down two frets. That's the sort of thing that helps us choose whether to use an open chord or another.

But do it because it works well, not because you simply can't do it the other way. Gotta learn those open shapes! As The Jerm says, it can leave some of your fingers free to do the twiddly stuff...

Now just wait till you get onto inversions. And triads. And....

:D - C

EDIT. Later: now I come to listen to it as well as watch the pictures (d'uh!) I realise George is playing G, not G7, barred at the third fret. His pinky is getting ready to fret the seventh when he moves up to A7, but it is hovering above the string. Listen to the music, Ceri!


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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:05 am
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Good on you, Ellen, for being inquisitive.

Have fun, play a lot. Ask questions. Try to find some answers yourself, alone. Personal fave piece of advice came from that great mid-20th century American philosopher, Frank Zappa.

"Shut up and play your guitar."

And his second phase of wisdom on guitar instruction:

"Shut up and play your guitar some more."


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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:03 pm
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leave some of your fingers free to do the twiddly stuff...


Take care to not get caught up by this technical jargon. :lol:

Gridlok 8)


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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:26 pm
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You guys are awesome! Thank you for all these helpful and encouraging words - every one a bit different, but all quite wise and insightful.

Great show of diligence, Ceri - I might start a regular quiz feature here, "What chord is this?" with links and time stamps to puzzling YouTube clips.

We're 11 days and counting until my next lesson...with your help I will survive the wait...

Ellen

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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:13 pm
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As my 19 year old son always tells me-practice your scales dad! I hate it, but it is good advice. BTW, I'm a beginner too! This is a great place. I have learned a lot here in the last few months-mainly, stay with it!! :D


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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:26 am
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EllenW wrote:
Great show of diligence, Ceri - I might start a regular quiz feature here, "What chord is this?" with links and time stamps to puzzling YouTube clips.


Thank you, Ellen - but you give me credit I don't deserve. In fact, I was watching your clip with the sound off, which is why I had to go back and correct myself later. Not very clever!

(So happens, I was listening to a radio program about George Bush's oratory. Actually, it was a very sensible and balanced examination into how words related to policy over eight years. However, they naturally had to throw in a few juicy "Bushisms", and I was watching your clip through eyes filled with tears as I fell about weeping with laughter at a couple I'd not heard before... :D )

Anyway. Love the idea of the chord quiz: go for it!

Cheers - C


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