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Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:45 pm
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folkrock91 wrote:
Troublecall wrote:
folkrock91 wrote:
Walmart and GC exist to make a profit. They're not running any charities. I think a lot of you guitar players are pretty spoiled. I think it's nice to have something called the "guitar center" near where I lvie that carries any guitar item I need. That's a luxury to be honest and I'm willing to pay a little extra for the small things.



There is a HUGE difference between making a profit and providing crappy, slipshod, lackadaisical, nonexistent customer service.

My local mom and pop guitar store makes a profit. So do Sweetwater and ZZsounds - all of whom provide excellent customer service and get my return business on a regular basis.


You're misssing the point entirely. Whenever a company is as big as Guitarcenter the customer service is obviously going to be a lot worse than say my local guitar store where I can talk directly to the oner everytime I walk in.


CS doesn't have to be worse, though you certainly need to employ different strategies. No, a large company can never "out-personal" a firm with the owner standing right there, but their CS management should be able to determine other things that the little guy can't do.

I've been in CS in one form or another for about 40 years. At first, I was in a commercial band ... not being "big name headliners" meant that we had to be very CS oriented to get repeat gigs. That meant we needed a strategy and one we used is that when we came to your high school or bar, we'd get a list of say your 5 "must hear" songs and master them. The big name acts didn't do that! They had fancy clothes, major league light shows, etc. ... but we played your songs.

Later on, I worked at a local private business college where our competition was the community colleges on one hand and the "name" 2 year and 4 year schools on the other. Once again, CS, adapted for our environment and laws was key. We could be more personal than the CCs and while we didn't have a nationwide name, we made sure that we had a top reputation among local employers for turning out top shelf hands on ready grads.

Now I'm with a company in the movie biz and we have clients all over the world. In this industry, everyone wants it yesterday and they want to pay about $0 for it. Once again ... yep ... CS is the key. We do payroll and let's be honest, a paycheck is a paycheck is a .... But when our people will do a "fix" in an hour and that gets you out of a jam while our competitor might not get to it for 24 hours, that's adapted CS. We cannot wine and dine our clients like our competitor but we're always right there at ground level with the crews making the movies.

So GC *COULD* have excellent CS if they wanted to - it's all a matter of where you put your resources and whether or not that effort is really backed from the top. It seems a given (when people talk) that the small guy always has the best CS but trust me ... I've had some of the worst service ever from small guys too. And in that situation, if the owner/sole employee doesn't want to budge, you're pretty much doomed while there might be other avenues in a bigger company.


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Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:56 pm
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There is a GC right here in town and it's just too convenient to go there instead of the other music stores much farther out. I've had mixed results when purchasing there. It's good for the simple stuff -- stomp boxes, cords, strings, cables -- because the transactions are just too easy to screw up.

I did buy an American Series Strat that was missing all of the case candy. They made an attempt make up for the missing goodies by giving me a cheap strap, strap locks that didn't work, etc. Apparently the new manager put a stop to all of the stealing and swapping so they couldn't "steal" one out of another case for me.

I've never had a problem with Musician's Friend. I always got everything on time and never had to invoke their return policy.


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Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:09 pm
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Well maybe some of you haven't taken any lumps yet but I won't make a major purchase at GC again, I may go and browse and waste there time so I can figure out what I may want to order from someone else. And musicians friend will no way ever get another cent from me. I bought through MF for over 15 years but they went way to far down hill.


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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:06 am
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Just because Guitar Center is a large profit making company does not give them the authorization to perform in a manner that I have read here in this long and interesting thread, although if that is what think will make them a successful company then so be it.

Hey, Fender is a large profitable corporation, I would bet that their size is at least that of Guitar Center (if not larger), and even though there are bound to be customer complaints against Fender, there IS a focus by Fender on customers and their needs. So then why does a musician based company such as Fender outperform GC? My guess is that there is a difference (between Fender and GC) in Leadership Standards and Company Culture - that is the bottom line. My guess is that Fender will be around for another 75 years, GC won't.

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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:30 pm
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Actually, Fender is a good example of what GC is going through right now. Everyone knows that when CBS bought Fender, their quality and cultural relativity dropped. In the 80's it looked like CBS was just going to cut Fender off like a Gangrenous Pinky Toe. However, an Employee led group of investors bought the company's name and Factories from CBS in 1985, and returned to Fenders roots. With one foot in Tradition and an eye on the future, they began making quality instruments at an affordable price again.

Now, Guitar Center is owned by a non-musical Parent Company who's only interest is Profit Margin. Once they realize that you can't run a Musical Instrument Outlet like a Burger King, they'll sell GC at a loss, and it will either be bought up by Sam Ash, or some other Big Chain, and go quietly into that goodnight. Or they will be bought by a smart group of small music retailers who will put comissioned sales-people back on the floor, and the good instruments out of reach.

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Post subject: That sucks
Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:01 pm
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i bought my first guitar at guitar center and never went back. they have really bad staff. i like to only use locale guitar stores because they are usually alot cleaner and nicer and will help you. guitar center also has a very high turn over rate for their workers.


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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:16 am
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folkrock91 wrote:
Troublecall wrote:
folkrock91 wrote:
Walmart and GC exist to make a profit. They're not running any charities. I think a lot of you guitar players are pretty spoiled. I think it's nice to have something called the "guitar center" near where I lvie that carries any guitar item I need. That's a luxury to be honest and I'm willing to pay a little extra for the small things.



There is a HUGE difference between making a profit and providing crappy, slipshod, lackadaisical, nonexistent customer service.

My local mom and pop guitar store makes a profit. So do Sweetwater and ZZsounds - all of whom provide excellent customer service and get my return business on a regular basis.


You're misssing the point entirely. Whenever a company is as big as Guitarcenter the customer service is obviously going to be a lot worse than say my local guitar store where I can talk directly to the oner everytime I walk in.


That is categorically not so. There are many companies as large as GC that strive to provide consistent quality customer service in all of their stores no matter where they are. It just has to be a focus. Polices, procedures, training programs, and enforcement across the board - that is all that it takes.
I travel a lot in my work and tend to visit GC's when I get bored in hotels because I know I can usually browse and maybe even play for a few minutes with impunity. Their quality varies incredibly widely from store to store so it is obviously left up to the local management. This is where they fall down.
And we, as customers, need to do our part. Just walking out and not going back does not help. We need to grab the managers and tell them "this is what happened to me in here, this is why it fell short of my expectations, and I am not coming back"
Enough of this might help....

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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:53 pm
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I avoid GC for many, many reasons, most of those based on personal experience. First, the people who work at the one in town here are arrogant idiots. I don't appreciate being treated like garbage or people talking down to me for asking questions. Secondly, they don't stock anything remotely close to the gear that I'm looking for. If I were going to buy a pointy Dean or BC Rich with a Floyd Rose, I would go there first. Plus, almost all the guitars have pretty much been turned into B-stock from the handling of teenage hands. Third, how the hell are you supposed to hear how a something sounds with AC/DC cranked throughout the building!? I could go on and on about things i dislike about them...

I would rather buy from Best Buy's music department than GC. The emloyees at the Best Buy here seem to have actually studied the entire Fender, Gibson, and other product lines and are knowlegable about music in general. They keep the good guitars high on the walls, so you have to ask to try them out. They also kick the unattended kids out, which I agree with 100%.

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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:45 pm
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Musicians Friend is fine with me. No local GCs and proud. Theres a local store less than a mile from my Wal-Mart so it sounds alot like the kind of store that would have a bunch of wannabe kids but thats not the case. its called Pied Piper great guitars,amps etc etc. and the employees are great helps the tag price is a little over the edge but the main salesmen is a easy bargainer.

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Post subject:
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:50 pm
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Here is my opinion on the manuals, case candy etc.

We pay for them. They are included in the price of the equipment we buy. They therefore should be included at no additional charge to us as the consumer.

Guitar Center, Musicians Friend, Sam Ash, Mom & Pop are all distributers. That means that there is an arraingement between Fender and them to sell and represent Fender in a manufacturing/distribution/consumer chain. If there is something missing in the box or case, that is between the distributor and Fender, not between Fender and the consumer.

I have to say that I would think Fender would be interested in how distrubutors are treating the consumer of their products. I'm sure most of us on this forum have spent thousands of dollars on Fender products, and love the products. Customer service AFTER the money is laid down is what separates a poor comapay from a good one.


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Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:12 am
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Dude, I know how you feel. They always act like jerks to me and they know nothing about music :x . I go to a local music store mostly and I ask them to order me some stuff and they do. You should ask your local shop if they would order stuff for you. :o


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Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:56 am
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The GC in Villa Park, Illinois is a totally class joint in this writer's opinion founded upon steady doing busineess with them for over a decade. Nothing but great experiences, period.

Repeat, only great experiences.

Fair prices, excellent people, fine products, valid advice, stand by the items sold.

And, they host a pickup / consultation / dropoff with Third Coast Guitar, Chicago's primo setup and repair shop, twice a week.

No, no personal affiliation and 'have never worked there. Just telling it like it has been for this customer. And that, e-colleagues, is SUPERB.


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:44 pm
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"On June 27, 2007, Guitar Center agreed to $1.9 billion buyout from Bain Capital, totaling $2.1 billion including debt. The deal was led by Goldman Sachs and amounted to a per-share price of $63, or a 26% premium on June 26's closing price. The deal was approved by shareholders on September 18th, 2007 and closed October 9th, 2007."

I copied this from Wikipedia. You'll notice GC's customer service went down about the same time.

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:27 pm
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FirstMeasure wrote:
"On June 27, 2007, Guitar Center agreed to $1.9 billion buyout from Bain Capital, totaling $2.1 billion including debt. The deal was led by Goldman Sachs and amounted to a per-share price of $63, or a 26% premium on June 26's closing price. The deal was approved by shareholders on September 18th, 2007 and closed October 9th, 2007."

I copied this from Wikipedia. You'll notice GC's customer service went down about the same time.


Seems to me the same thing happened to a private company called Harley Davidson in 1969 - bought by a company called AMF. Volume goes up quality in product and service goes to the dogs.....................

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:33 pm
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Beaubs wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
"On June 27, 2007, Guitar Center agreed to $1.9 billion buyout from Bain Capital, totaling $2.1 billion including debt. The deal was led by Goldman Sachs and amounted to a per-share price of $63, or a 26% premium on June 26's closing price. The deal was approved by shareholders on September 18th, 2007 and closed October 9th, 2007."

I copied this from Wikipedia. You'll notice GC's customer service went down about the same time.


Seems to me the same thing happened to a private company called Harley Davidson in 1969 - bought by a company called AMF. Volume goes up quality in product and service goes to the dogs.....................


This often happen when company "A" buys "B" but their executives know little about what "B" does or how they do it. They may retain some key people and if they do and give them authority, things might go reasonably well. But as often (in real business history), they tend to hack the old guard indiscriminately. Then they're left with going by the bottom line with rules set by people who aren't familiar with the game.


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