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Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:51 pm
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chucksolo69 wrote:
Because it helps the student focus on learning how to play music and the instrument as opposed to the user wanting to be the next Eric Clapton and learning a bunch of "monkey see monkey do" riffs right off the bat and foregoing the correct way of learning the instrument and music in general. I've alway said that if a person is really interested in music he/she should at least learn the right way. Too often young kids wanting to emulate their latest "guitar hero" want to jump right in and get taught a bunch of riffs not knowing why they are playing what they are playing. They then try to play in a group situation and when asked to play a chord or note, you will get the reply "Where do I put my fingers for that?" Classic "Guitar Wanker" syndrome. You see this most often when young players start out on an electric guitar.


Anyone who wants to learn will learn chords, theory and structure regardless of instrument played. When i learnt i concentrated on chords and quickly mastered barre shapes open E,A and C then went onto open G barre shape ala albert king. When i heard hubert sumlin i went on to learn 9ths and 11ths. All of this in 1985 when my mates were all playing eruption or the latest whitesnake riff. Am i a better guitarist now because of it, no, not at all. 2 of them old mates are very well respected session musicians one of em has appeared on a number of international hits. Its never held them back and we had some fun when we were kids too.

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Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:21 pm
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Yes, but you said it yourself, you learned the chords and in essense you learned some sort of theory. The "players" I am talking about are those that audition for a band (I am the leader of a working band) and they show you what they have chops wise and then you ask them, "What chord was that you were playing?" and they answer "I dunno, you put your fingers like this..........." or I try teaching them a song and I say play an E7sus4 or an A9 and add the 13th and they have absolutely no idea what I am talking about. I don't have time to teach theory to these "players." Those types, usually kids picking up an electric and trying to be the next Randy Rhodes, are better suited to sitting on the bed in their room playing to themselves. I am only saying that an acoustic guitar is usually recommended for learning the BASICS. You need to walk before you can run. Yes, go ahead and learn the "monkey see, monkey do" riffs, but DO NOT call yourself a musician, that's an insult to those of us who are and learned the RIGHT way. BTW - There is nothing wrong with playing Joan Baez songs on an acoustic, is she less legitimate than say.... Metallica? That 14 year old metal head you described is probably headed to Guitar Wankerdom. In my band, Wankers need not apply. I can spot them from the first chord they hit because usually another Wanker has taught them nothing but power chords and classic riffs, no theory at all. Sad actually, because those types actually think they can play. 'Nuff said.


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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:40 am
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Joan Baez legitimate . . . sure. Relevant to a young kid wanting to learn to play guitar in the 21st century . . . probably not (that's why I picked her). I'm in full agreement with you that learning your chords is vital, and that learning at least some rudimentary theory is necessary to be a decent player. I just don't agree that to learn "properly" you must start on an acoustic guitar.

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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:42 am
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whilst there are certain dynamics of acoustic guitar that benefit every electric player even bass players to a degree. What you learn is determined by what you focus on, not which type of guitar you play.

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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:57 am
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mthorn00 wrote:
I have found that keeping your students interested by teaching not only what they need to learn, but also what they want to learn will keep them playing AND help keep them disciplined and motivated.

Guitar is also supposed to be fun


Amen brother!

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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:39 am
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I started out acoustic to learn the basics of chords... but I became very serious about learning more and eventually got an electric. I would have to agree with what a lot of folks are saying here... go with an MIM Strat, especially if you are going to be a serious guitar player and have a focus for learning.

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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:48 pm
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hey barry where you been,brad was asking about you


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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:34 pm
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I have suddenly become very interested in playing guitar. This helps me, even though I didn't ask the initial question, very much.


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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:27 pm
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After reading all the posts on this thread I notice that almost nobody advocates learing music in order to play correctly and well. Am I the only one here that advocates being a real musician? To me, being a musician is not only being able to sit down and play a couple of songs by rote. To me being a true musician is looking at sheet music and knowing what is written there. However, I do see the value of looking in a book with chord charts and seeing how to form the chords and what they are named and learning that way. Now, let's ask a question, and be honest. How many here actually can be asked to play an A9 with added 13 or an E7 sus 4 and be able to play it without looking it up? Music is more than just hanging a guitar around your neck and looking cool folks.


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Post subject: JMO
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:33 pm
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I have found that learning on an acoustic guitar has many benefits. The one down side is that alot of the things/devices that help you learn theory on the acoustic tend to be mundane an uninteresting. If you can get past the initial monotony of scales and repetition, the acoustic guitar will make you a better player. Its a hell of alot easier to transition form acoustic to electric than vice versa. I would recomend the acoustic if you are serious about being a proficient player; otherwise go with the electric because it alowws you to cheat alot. Just remember though, if you catch the guitar playing bug and play as much as I do, you quickly find that you may not always have the equipment or space to go electric. It is times like this when having chops on acoustic are priceless. Oh yeah- you should also consider the typesoff music you like. If you are in to the hendrix clapton mayer bluesy sound you sould start on acoustic other wise electric is just fine. Its all really a matter of taste.


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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:03 pm
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so i'm about to leave back to work for 2 weeks, as im screwin around on my laptop i check my funds, i got paid early woot!
My ride was coming in an hour but i had time to swing down to my local yamaha dealer and pick-up the slg100s which i have been waiting to own for a little while now
i leave the house get half way there and boom, no wallet...terrible
turn around...
i got the wallet and started back again, i get all the way across town and its closed, i should have called but i was so stoked the sense in me was hidden somewhere haha
so i just thought i'd let you know, i'll post pics of my new weird acoustic in 2 weeks and if i decide to grab the splattercaster the same day i can't wait to post that!
thanks for all the help again everyone!!


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Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:56 am
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chucksolo69 wrote:
After reading all the posts on this thread I notice that almost nobody advocates learing music in order to play correctly and well.


I guess it all depends on what the end goal is. Are we talking about a 15 year old kid that wants to go to Berkeley and become a professional song writer? Than yes, they're going to need to learn all the details if they want to be taken seriously as a "true musician". How about a 55 year old that wants to take up a new hobby on guitar? I say grab a guitar you like and start playing and learn as much as you can - what's the point of getting bogged down in all the minutiae at that point in life if you're never going to really need most of it?

You seem hung up on the "musician" label, and while I can totally and completely appreciate your frustration with "wankers", in the end it's really not a huge deal and it's all relative to the situation. Clearly, to be called a doctor you must graduate from medical school and pass the boards. To be called a lawyer you need law school and the bar. Musician? It's not so black and white.

To me it's all about a love of making music and playing with others. Not everyone will have the same skill set or understanding.

:)

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Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:51 am
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Great, but, no one has really answered the question. They merely defend their position for NOT wanting to learn music.


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Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:26 am
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I don't know that they are necessarily mutually exclusive. I started playing six months or so ago on an electric guitar, after promising myself I'd learn for over 35 years (I'm 52). Now, I know how to read music from years past and it is slowly coming back to me. I have exercised discipline (ala nkininja) and learned chords and scales before moving on to trying to learn songs.

But I have now decided that in order to improve the way I want to that I need to add acoustic guitar techniques to my arsenal. So I just bought a Fender Sonoran SCE Custom in Shoreline Gold (different, but I like it) to do different exercises on.
But I still am picking up the electric and "wanking" with tabs...

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Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:58 am
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Am I the only one here that advocates being a real musician?


A REAL musician? Aren't we just a bit full of ourself? Although I haven't heard them, I would wager that this forum is full of highly talented and very real musicians.

Let me tell you a little story. My sister was an unbelievably talented pianist. She studied and learned and played recitals. You could give her an unfamilliar, complex score, and she could play it perfectly - first time. I was always jealous of her talents. But here's the thing - she was jealous of MY talents - playing by ear! She could not work out a tune without the sheet music, and I could!

It was not so much jealousy as mutual admiration. If you cannot accept that someone is a real and talented musician because of the way they learned, you might just as well put them down for the kind of guitar they play - or the way they cut their hair - or the color of their skin.

There is much to learn.

Gridlok


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