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Post subject: Philosophical question
Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:24 pm
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Here's a philosophical question for the group:

What makes a Fender a Fender?

Let's say you buy a Stratocaster. You like it, but you think it can be improved. So you replace the strings, the pickups, the pickguard, the strap buttons, the bridge, the tremolo springs and bar, the nut, the trussrod, the tuners, the pots and switch, the fretwires, and the jack.

Is it still the same guitar? Is is still a Fender?

What if you change out the neck? Or the body?

At what point does modification change the very essence of the thing? How far can you go and have it still be the same object?


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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:59 pm
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As with most philisophical questions, every answer raises more questions. Lets say you replace the neck with a Mity Mite neck, it's still a Fender. If you replace it with a Peavey neck, you made a Mongral. Same goes for the body, if you change it for a Fender lic. body, its still a fender, otherwise it's in the Frankenstien catagory. Changing out the electronics and pickguards and machine heads does nothing to change it's status as a Fender, as the feel, look, and sound you get from the wood parts are still Fender.

Even a Fender made guitar can fall short of the philisophical criteria outlined in this question. The 80's travesty called simlpy "The Strat" was aimed at the growing Metal crowd, but felt and sounded more like a Kramer than a Fender. Most Fender Fans dismissed that atrocity as being "not very Fender"

Finally, as with most partisipants of Philisophical discussions, my personal experiences shape my opinion. Ie, when I bought my first Strat in 1989, all the old guys around me said, "Thats nice, but Fender hasn't been Fender since CBS bought them out." A position I wholeheartedly disagree with since it's the guitar that started my 19 year love afair with all things Fender.

The largest question left after modding your Fender to the point of changing the body and neck is, "Why did you buy a Fender if you didn't want what Fender has to offer?"

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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:00 pm
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Neck or body? I don't think so. Change those and it's another guitar.

Other components? Maybe no more than 2.

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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:40 pm
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My first Squier is still with me and has been modded so many times it makes Gilmour's look stock. By now the wood of the body with most of its original thick paint is the only thing left from the guitar as new. Actually, it plays very nicely, after all that attention!

On the one hand, as a Squier you could say it never was a real Fender. And since none of the new parts are Fender it has become even less so.

And yet it is still true to the concept of a Stratocaster in all its elements. Which to me is a very philosophical concept.

(My real Fenders are all stock. No philosophical doubts about them!)

Cheers - C


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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:10 pm
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Its just a Fender guitar that has been Moded if you change pickups or pots :shock: but I think once you change the neck or body you now have a generic guitar :mrgreen:

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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:12 pm
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cvilleira wrote:
Its just a Fender guitar that has been Moded if you change pickups or pots :shock: but I think once you change the neck or body you now have a generic guitar :mrgreen:


i agree.

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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:18 pm
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Ain't it amazing that people change items on a true Fender, and manufacturers try to copy the real Fender?


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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:18 pm
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if it looks like a strat & plays like a strat then it must be a strat, if somebody wants to turn their strat into a mutt just because that person likes to tinker with things then sail on sailor.
sparky


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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:18 pm
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I will probably take some flak for this one.

What about Musicman guitars, or better yet, G&Ls. These were guitars designed and manufactured by Leo Fender that he thought were improvements on his old designs. Are they more Fender than Fender is?

As said earlier, this just serve to raise more questions than it answers.


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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:45 pm
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A Strat-style guitar is a Strat-style guitar. A Fender is a Fender, a Musicman is a Musicman. See where I am going with this? As long as you keep Fender parts on a Fender, then it's a Fender and not a modified Fender. You can put a Warmoth neck on you Fender, and you will have a sweet guitar, but it is no longer considered a Fender. Try using it for trade, you probably will not get $75 bucks in trade.

The real question is do you want to keep a Fender Stratocaster stock, or make improvements to it to better enhance the sound or style of your music. That's the fun part about playing guitars, everyone always wants to improve the tone and sound of their guitars.

I have a '07 HWY 1 Stratocaster. Right now I am very satisfied with it and won't change anything for now. Who knows, in a few years I may decide to put a non-Fender pick up in the bridge. In my opinion, no longer a True Fender, but it may sound bad $@!.

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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:15 pm
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The question needs to refer back to Leo's original design ethos to be answered.

'A guitar the layman can play and repair.'

That said every contoured body, 6 in a line tunered, 3 singlecoil guitar of decent manufacture is in essence a 'fender' in design.

I think the whole fender design transcends place of manufacture or personel involved. If not the only guitars made between 51 and 65 qualify as fender.


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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:36 am
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The same issue applies in antiques -- at what point is an "original" no longer really the original piece? There's no clean answer and can't be. Even a minor repair makes an item no longer technically original but depending on what it is and how it was done, it may subtract little from the value.

On the other hand, modifying the original functionality will usually have a serious impact, even if most of the item is still original. For example, my grandfather modified glass globe kerosene lamps for people back in the 1930s. The two globes (top and bottom), chimney and base piece were not modded at all. But he drilled a small hole up through the center and replaced the kero burner with an electric socket. A cord was routed out the back of the base. All very discrete and people loved their new and safe electric lights installed in granny's 1870s glass globe lamp.

But ... despite the fact that the visible part (globes) were probably 95% of the original purchase price (hand blown, hand painted, etc.), the lamp is no longer considered an original. Sure, it's still worth a lot more than a repro you can buy anywhere, but only a fraction of what one with the original kero insert would be worth.

And even if you found an authentic kero insert and largely undid the mod, you wouldn't improve the value that much. So when is a Fender no longer a Fender may not be the question. Rather, at what point has it been modded so that to someone looking for an authentic original, it is significantly reduced in value.


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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:03 am
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In short, I would say that as long as the neck and body remain "Fender" (original or licensed aftermarket) you still own a "Fender" guitar.

Change out electronics and hardware all you want.
8)

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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:09 am
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jeffo46 wrote:
If you go out and buy yourself a Fender Stratocaster knowing what it is, then why on God's green earth would you want to change it in the 1st place?

Because they are the ultimate test-bed for customization with a zillion options available because countless companies make parts made for a direct fit into a Strat. There are more options available for a Strat than ANY other guitar, period.

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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:00 pm
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The Strat is timeless, simple and beautiful

cheers :D


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