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Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:36 am
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I've wondered about using Titanium for frets. I've had my '75 P refretted once (with nickel jumbos) and dressed twice.

Google shows some conversations about it, but I don't see anybody actually using titanium. One guy says it has high friction properties which would probably make it hard on strings.
ppl also mention the high cost of titanium, but having frets dressed at $350+ ain't exactly cheap either.

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Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:11 am
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-Ryco wrote:
I... but having frets dressed at $350+ ain't exactly cheap either.



Whoa. $350 for a fret dressing? I do those myself in under an hour. Easiest thing in the world to do. I need to start doing those on the side then and make $350/hr for this stuff :) Do like 20 of them a week and I'll be good :)


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Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:44 am
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dgonz wrote:
-Ryco wrote:
I... but having frets dressed at $350+ ain't exactly cheap either.



Whoa. $350 for a fret dressing? I do those myself in under an hour. Easiest thing in the world to do. I need to start doing those on the side then and make $350/hr for this stuff :) Do like 20 of them a week and I'll be good :)


Don't get too excited, Dgonz: I suspect it really meant $350 for fret replacement.

On the other hand, if it really was just for dressing, why then I'll offer that service too for the price, and I'll throw in DHL to and fro across the Atlantic!

Cheers - C


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Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:02 am
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Ceri wrote:
Don't get too excited, Dgonz: I suspect it really meant $350 for fret replacement.


WOOOOO-HOOOOOO!! I'm RICH! I'm filthy rich!!!

Oh wait. Yeah, a fret replacement might be a 'tad' more. Dammit. I should probably hold off on the new Challenger then...

http://www.dodge.com/en/2009/challenger/


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Post subject: Stainless Steel Frets
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:45 am
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I had Stainless Steel Frets installed in my beloved Fender Roscoe Beck Signature 5 String Jazz Bass.

I didn't really want to change anything about the original bass other than to have my intonation and cleanliness back on par with a new bass. Keep in mind it is even better considering the wood has settled and is broken in. So, I get sound and feel of an older neck with the function of a new one. Basically the best of both words.

On top of that, it was installed by a luthier who used a Plek machine. After picking up the bass from Philtone in the morning, I used the bass on a recording session that day. I plugged directly into a Universal Audio LA-610 Classic Tube Recording Channel Microphone Preamp (very clean, clear, phat & warm) with a Fender Platinum 12' cable. The Fender bass instantly sounded awesome. I used to the ease of how a Fender bass records, the stainless steel (under a microscope) didn't change the equation. I thought there would some added highs, but I didn't notice a negligible difference. If there is it is positive. More overtones without added treble is always welcome. This was reinforced by my good friend at Barber Electronics and a discussion with Philtone Guitar Repair before I blindly proceeded. Also, because of the hardness of the alloy, the strings seemed to bend smoother with less friction.

Though the job costs more in terms of the frets & labor, the durability should outweigh this slight disadvantage. I been told it is probably the last fret that bass will need.

Dunlop has stainless steel frets that should closely relate to the existing frets the instrument has. If you really like low or flat frets, the correct starting fret should get you in the ballpark, the professional luthier should be able to refine it from that point.


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Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:04 pm
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-Ryco wrote:
I've wondered about using Titanium for frets. I've had my '75 P refretted once (with nickel jumbos) and dressed twice.

Google shows some conversations about it, but I don't see anybody actually using titanium. One guy says it has high friction properties which would probably make it hard on strings.
ppl also mention the high cost of titanium, but having frets dressed at $350+ ain't exactly cheap either.


That sounds really expensive. I had my frets dressed for $150, which included a complete setup. It costs $350 for a fret replacement where I'm at.

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Post subject: Warmouth necks in UK
Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:28 pm
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I'm UK based. Does Warmouth ship replacement neck to the UK? Anyone here ever had one?


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Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:21 pm
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Nothing sounds as good as pure old fashioned Nickel Silver Frets!!! Stainless frets make your guitar sound less than natural. The stainless is extremely hard and makes the guitar sound brassy, too bright & in many cases will result in serious listening fatigue. Especially on a strat that is bright any way; unless you are using distortion all the time. Parker guitars use stainless frets and is the only company I know that actually glues their frets onto the fingerboard. They don't use a "fret tang." Many people object to that Parker sound as being way too bright. In fact, Parker actually upgraded their pickups to compensate for the stainless steel frets. They used to use Dimarzio's and now they finally offer a model with Seymour Duncan pickups. The Duncan's help about 85%,
Stainless frets on a Strat or PRS, or Gibson styled guitar sound like one of those old Parker guitars before they changed from Dimarzio to Duncan: screechy & bright. Even numerous country pickers who traditionally use a very bright tone say there too bright. The guitarists I talked to all agreed that the stainless was way too hard and so was the resulting sound.
Nothing will ruin fret tools as quickly as a stainless steel frets. Even though they may last longer they cost triple to replace when they do wear out, so I see no monetary savings. They do make a Titanium fret these days, that could be an option….

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Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:59 pm
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Hey, welcome back, old thread!

wtcumm00 wrote:
... Parker guitars use stainless frets and is the only company I know that actually glues their frets onto the fingerboard. They don't use a "fret tang"...


Hi wtcumm00: I certainly don't know all about Parker's production methods.

But in general when people use the "glue in" method of fretting it is the barbs on the tang they sometimes remove (or partially), not the tang itself. They often make the fret slot a touch wider too, with the glue taking up the extra space.

Some think it makes the frets a little more secure and resonant - and some don't. Many feel it makes refretting easier - and others do it once the neck has been refretted so many times the slots are worn and not gripping the tang enough any more.

Traditional fretting versus modern glue-in: now there's a contraversial topic if ever there was one...

Cheers - C


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Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:12 pm
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Plus you have to remember until 81' 82' Fender slid there frets in from the side. There was no glue and when you tap them out sideways you have to be carefull. You never seen loose frets on the old guitar.

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Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:25 pm
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There are a few other companies making stock guitars now with stainless frets from the factory; in addition to Parker there is carvin, and the new Fender collaboration of the EVH Wolfgang. It would seem they are coming more into wide spread use. I can’t speak for how the EVH and the carvin sound, but like I said before the Parker sounds way too brassy for my ear…Van Halen said in a recent interview in GW mag a few months ago that they do not rob tone at all, I cant remember the last time I heard him play something clean where you could really notice if it were way too bright….

Your right Ceri, Traditional fretting vs glue in can be a controversial topic. I am not going to argue Parkers glue on fret method; it seems to work for them and there are plenty of stainless fans out there buying their product… It has just always seemed to me that glue is not the chosen material to help with resonant properties. I know for a fact that the glue in neck on Gibson robs resonance and kills off some of the potential sustain and overtones the guitar was once capable of. Les Paul compensate for this some by using all the extra wood in the body (Heavy/Mass) and the tone Pro bridge, but the bottom line is the Glue in the set neck design robs over all tone.

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Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:41 pm
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wtcumm00 wrote:
It has just always seemed to me that glue is not the chosen material to help with resonant properties. I know for a fact that the glue in neck on Gibson robs resonance and kills off some of the potential sustain and overtones the guitar was once capable of. Les Paul compensate for this some by using all the extra wood in the body (Heavy/Mass) and the tone Pro bridge, but the bottom line is the Glue in the set neck design robs over all tone.


What :shock: A set neck robs the guitar of tone. The bolt on neck carries over resonance to the body less then any set neck guitar. A glued in set neck is a better connection then you could ever get with a bolt on. It is just an out right tighter fit and tightbond glue in the join sure is not effecting it.

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Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:11 pm
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The bolt on neck carries over resonance to the body less then any set neck guitar


Not any set neck...a deep set neck will not have this problem as there is no glue in the joint like a shallow set like in a Les paul.. The glue acts as a dampener

Also I never said bolt on necks did not have the same problem but I believe less that a guitar with glue in the neck joint.

This is of course avoided in a bolt on neck if brass inserts are used inside the neck allowing for a much tighter fit making it a bolt in design. It is also avoided in a thru neck design; of course a design like that robs some mids and gives you a deeper tone more fit for metal…

bottom line is i still Believe that glue is a bad thing and robs resonance and sustain

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Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:45 pm
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wtcumm00 wrote:
Quote:
The bolt on neck carries over resonance to the body less then any set neck guitar


Not any set neck...a deep set neck will not have this problem as there is no glue in the joint like a shallow set like in a Les paul.. The glue acts as a dampener

Also I never said bolt on necks did not have the same problem but I believe less that a guitar with glue in the neck joint.

This is of course avoided in a bolt on neck if brass inserts are used inside the neck allowing for a much tighter fit making it a bolt in design. It is also avoided in a thru neck design; of course a design like that robs some mids and gives you a deeper tone more fit for metal…

bottom line is i still Believe that glue is a bad thing and robs resonance and sustain


No way is tightbond glue acting as a dampener. And a LP neck is making better contact to the body then any Strat. style guitar. And it does not matter if you are bolting the neck to brass drop in's on not it does not become one with the body as much as a set neck. If that was the case and they were better you would bet all Les Paul's would have bolt on necks because bolt on's are the least expensive and easiest style guitar to make.

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Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:43 am
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R.M. Mottola recently released a very well executed and controlled study on the single aspect of sustain on different neck joints. It's published in issue #91 of American Lutherie, the quarterly journal of the Guild of American Luthiers. I myself approached the study with a healthy skepticism, but he really covered his bases and kept it very well controlled, well documented, well established standard deviations, overall with very very few variables left to chance.

His results showed consistently the bolt on neck joint having greatest sustain, glued joint placing second, and neck through construction placing last. Looking back at his results, it really makes perfect sense. Take a while to study bar vibrations, how waves can be absorbed, transferred, interrupted and reflected, and dampened. It does make perfect sense that any act of interrupting the bar system of neck to bridge, via density or stiffness change of a glue joint, to that plus the mass, transmission through, etc., of metals in a bolt on joint would impede the damping of the neck body system, thereby increasing sustain.

The results were slight enough that no one involved in the study could claim to actually hear a difference, but they showed up consistently in spectrum analysis programs. I would love to see some peer revue studies to confirm or challenge these results, but both the reasoning and the results are both quite compelling. At the very least, this test helps make the idea of the neck joint's effects on sustain as insignificant or negligible harder to contest than before.
Glued neck joints loose a bit on being service friendly, but they are still a bit more serviceable than a neck through

http://liutaiomottola.com/myth/neckJointSustain.htm

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