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Post subject: Do You Use Computer Modelling Software?
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:00 pm
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Along with being in the market for a new guitar, I've been looking at some of the new amplifiers being released to the market this year. Some look really interesting. But this has led me to considering computer modelling interfaces again, something I considered years ago and then rejected. I think ground has been made with this stuff. The package that caught my eye is the Native Instruments Guitar Rig Kontrol Edition (cool software and foot pedal controller).

How many of you use stuff like this and what do you use? How do you like it? Are you satisfied with tone? Anyone use it for live performances by slaving to a PA system?

I'm mostly interested in using it at home for practice, writing and recording. But I guess I need to buy new computer audio monitor speakers because mine are pretty cheap? What powered speaker system to you use? Does the controller direct out to external speakers or to your computer's audio system?

Any and all info on your personal experience would be helpful.


Last edited by museseek on Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:18 pm
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I'm not sure if this is the kind of modeling you had in mind, but I use a Variax guitar and a Roland Cube modeling amp, with occasional use of the amp models in a Roland BR micro. My son uses the Line 6 Spider Jam amp with a Strat. These are all excellent products and I have settled on them for daily use. I also have a Strat, but I like the Variax better and so I play it more.

This combination of equipment lets me experiment with a lot of different sounds, and I can duplicate a lot of sounds that I have heard and like.

As for gigging, I don't think the BR micro was designed with that in mind, but a Line 6 Pod is. I also would not recommend the Variax for gigging unless I had a backup. The pickups seem to be more delicate than conventional electric guitar pickups and you can lose amplification of a string suddenly. It's not a huge problem but it's significant. It seems to be the biggest problem, by far, with the Variax.

For home use, I can't imagine doing anything but taking advantage of today's modeling options. It makes so much sense.


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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:33 pm
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One project that I do some bass playing for uses a Mac laptop with some kind of modller. I am not savvy enough yet with that stuff but I can tell you the recordings are almost radio ready quality..and we can lay a song down in minutes. I will ask next time I see him what program he is using..it seems reletivly easy to use.

The guitarist uses a line 6 pod and I use a line 6 bass pod as well for modelling which really seems to help, but there seems to be enough choices on the prgram alone to get all kinds of sounds. Actually my guitar player has a fretboard that comes up on his Ipod and you actually can play it..and it sounds good..especially the acoustic.. the technology is unbelievable these days.

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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:07 pm
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Rudy H:

I love the idea of modelling to get more bang for the buck. I can't afford to own 10 different boutique amplifiers plus all the pedals. But I've been disappointed with modelling and solid state amps I've purchased in the past. But I can't help but wonder if my own technical incompetence caused the problems with tone I've experience. My main problem has been achieving sustain from the amps for lead work. I've owned a solid state Marshall MG100DFX, a Line 6 Spider II, and a Vox Valvetronix AD30VT. I sold them all at a loss. But I've seen YouTube videos of some people playing those same three amplifiers and they sound fantastic! So that's really frustrating for me.

Funny that you play through a Roland Cube. After I sold my last modelling amp, I tried a Roland Cube 20-X and really liked it at only $160. I couldn't be completely ampless so I use it just to keep up my chops while I shop around. The clean is very nice and some of the models are actually okay. I have a similar problem achieving sustain for lead play, but oh well. I'm not complaining at $160. I used to think my problem was with volume because I usually play at bedroom volumes. But I've cranked these amps with no better results.


EbaySux (I tend to agree with that, but it's improving):

I'd appreciate knowing what your guitarist uses and what interface controller he uses between his guitar and computer.

I agree that the technology is cool today. But it's moved slower than I've preferred. I was hoping for good modelling amps 15 years ago and their progress in terms of quality and performance has been agonizingly slow in my opinion. But it's all improving. Still, I think that there's far too much inferior junk out there being deceptively marketed to inexperienced players.

I'm a little overwhelmed with the choices, though: tube or solid state or modelling amps; modelling software; pedal effects; digital effects; modelling units ... man! You can spend thousands of dollars and still have tone that sounds like crap (I know because I've done it).


Last edited by museseek on Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:12 pm
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I always use a Line 6 GuitarPort which works on both my PC and Mac (you just download the respected drivers). I record with either Digital Performer or Cool Edit Pro as an interface. The Line 6 modelers in my opinion are superb modelers. I have no idea how their competition has them; I just know that I've recorded some really impressive-sounding demos with the GuitarPort which I purchased for forty bucks brand new. You can download the software gratis from Line6.com.

I recently took the live drums from my band's demo and used the Line 6 GuitarPort to multi-track a bunch of guitars and bass to 'em and so far so good. Here's a sample of how I used the Line 6 modelers. I'm using this approach strictly for writing purposes and for coming up with ideas and sounds. I've got tons of riffs that go anywhere from clean to dirty.

For monitoring I only use headphones since these tracks are *roughs* so to speak, and will only be used by me for posterity. Oh, and the hookups are a 1/4" cable from guitar to GuitarPort, 1/8" to 1/8 mini cable from GuitarPort to sound card and a usb cable from GuitarPort to computer. Easy peasy Japanesey!

The guys at Line 6 model the top-shelf amps, speakers, effects, mic and mic placements and your favorite guitar player "tones" as well. It's a really cool and useful device which I highly recommend.

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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:26 pm
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The_Philth:

Thanks for the advice. I've seen that Line 6 GuitarPort and it looked interesting, but I thought it had to be too cheap to be any good. I just listened to your sample track and it sounds great! Very Toolish (which doesn't surprise me given the Tool lyrics on your signature line). Add some Maynard-like vocals and lyrics to that track and I expect we might be hearing you on alternative radio sometime soon. Nicely done, and nice guitar tone! I'm going to give the L6 GP another look -- I like easy because it's something I can do. :lol:


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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:44 pm
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Thanks the_philth, pretty much sumed it up.

And can you please tell me the procedure you use for linking music media player like you did in your reply? I could use that in my biogs so I don't always have to send auditions to myspace..that would be cool.

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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:57 pm
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museseek wrote:
Very Toolish (which doesn't surprise me given the Tool lyrics on your signature line). Add some Maynard-like vocals and lyrics to that track and I expect we might be hearing you on alternative radio sometime soon. Nicely done, and nice guitar tone! I'm going to give the L6 GP another look -- I like easy because it's something I can do. :lol:


Well, the funny thing is, my singer Camella - you can hear her screaming away in the beginning of the track - she's married to Adam Jones so, I guess you can say there's a pretty big Tool influence involved.

As I've stated the Line 6 is über simple to use. The effects and amp models are awesome.

~phil

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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:00 pm
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ebaysux wrote:
Thanks the_philth, pretty much sumed it up.

And can you please tell me the procedure you use for linking music media player like you did in your reply?


Well, I actually store my mp3's on my website's server, then I have to link back to the directory in order for me to post in this forum. If that's not clear enough let me know and I'll try to simplify it.

~phil

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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:26 pm
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Thanks Phil, I understand you more or less.

What I want to do is take a single song that I have in my media player library and be able to leave a link in an email..example "click here to listen to demo". Is there any host I can use that you know of for this? I don't really want to set up an entire website for one song..already got 3 myspaces.

I guess something like a "photobucket" for music is what I need, right?

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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:50 pm
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Here's what I came up with ----

Playlist.com
4shared.com
Boomp3.com
SoundClick.com

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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:16 pm
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Thanks phil..u da man!

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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:06 pm
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the_philth wrote:

Well, the funny thing is, my singer Camella - you can hear her screaming away in the beginning of the track - she's married to Adam Jones so, I guess you can say there's a pretty big Tool influence involved.

As I've stated the Line 6 is über simple to use. The effects and amp models are awesome.

~phil


Your singer is married to Adam Jones!? Sweet! I'm going to listen to the track again because I was at work when I played it and I had the volume turned down the first 30 seconds or so, so I didn't catch her at all.

I think that Tool is one of the most creative bands out there. I've been a huge fan from the beginning. They nobly represent the Los Angeles music scene along with the Red Hot Chili Peppers and a few others. Adam Jones is a genius. Hell, every member of the band is a genius. I chase his tone more than EVH's, so I'm definitely going to check out the Line 6 you suggested based on the track you linked. Adam owns a restaurant in the north Valley if I'm not mistaken. I read something like that somewhere. I think it was the LA Weekly. I should look it up sometime and give it a try.

Best of luck to you. It sure can't hurt to have that kind of connection in your band along with that sound.


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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:42 am
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MuseSeek:

I've played the good tube amps at places where I can try them in a "loud room" They are very nice. I don't know much about music all the options, but I do like the sound of the Spider Jam with various presets, it sounds as good as anything else I've listened to.

I sold my G-Dec Jr because the Cube 30x has a feature that I really like and appreciate: it's the power squeeze feature that allows me to crank the volume up to get the sustain and distortion, but without being too loud to play inside my house.

If noise wasn't a consideration, I'd probably at least consider a tube amp, but since low noise is absolutely critical to my application, then solid state is the only way to go.


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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:30 am
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RudyH wrote:
MuseSeek:

I've played the good tube amps at places where I can try them in a "loud room" They are very nice. I don't know much about music all the options, but I do like the sound of the Spider Jam with various presets, it sounds as good as anything else I've listened to.

I sold my G-Dec Jr because the Cube 30x has a feature that I really like and appreciate: it's the power squeeze feature that allows me to crank the volume up to get the sustain and distortion, but without being too loud to play inside my house.

If noise wasn't a consideration, I'd probably at least consider a tube amp, but since low noise is absolutely critical to my application, then solid state is the only way to go.



Your power squeeze works satsifactorily? I find mine on my 20x to sound too compressed or something (I lose a lot of note definition from individual strings). I haven't found that it adds much more saturation and definitely no added sustain. Either I'm the unluckiest dude on the planet when it comes to guitar gear, a complete klutz, overly picky about tone, or the ultra-low volumes I usually play at don't do a thing for good tone (or maybe a little of all four). Achieving great guitar tone at low volumes on a hobbyist budget isn't something I've perfected. I want that endless sustain provided by a saturated tube amp at a volume that doesn't make my ears bleed and that won't have my neighbors outside my home with pitchforks. That's why I like to use these forums for tips.

I've seen that a trend is finally developing with amp manufacturers to offer excellent tube amps at low power levels for recording and bedroom hobbyists, and at a reasonable price. More tube amps are now being offered that allow variable wattage operation. I kind of like the Krank Rev Jr, but it doesn't allow variable power.

But as I'm once again eagerly looking for new gear that will magically transform me into a guitar hero on which to throw my precious money, I've really taken more interest in the tone and amp modelling software that requires that I play my guitar through my computer and thus through my computer's soundcard and speaker (at least, I THINK that's the way it works) so I wouldn't even need an amplifier in concept. I know that some guitarists are doing this at live performances and they just direct out from their laptop to the monitors.

I like the Spider Jam and GDec a lot, but they're wasted on me because I usually jam to CD's.


Last edited by museseek on Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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