It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:21 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: Is this legal?
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:11 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:55 am
Posts: 404
I was on youtube.com and noticed there are quite a lot of songs published there. They'll typically show the album cover as a still photo, and the song will play. I realize it's not stereo and it's not high quality recording, but it still seems rather suspicious. Is it legal to make posts like that on youtube-like sites? I imagine you'd need special equipment to capture the recordings, but it still seems wrong.


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:15 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 21
i have no idea. you would think so, but you never know these days...........


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:27 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:29 am
Posts: 70
Location: New York, NY
I don't see the problem, but it is surely not legal, unless the publishing rights are part of the public domain. In the UK I believe it is 50 years and in the US 75 years.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Is this legal?
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:48 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:47 pm
Posts: 4294
Location: Somewhere near Seattle
RudyH wrote:
I was on youtube.com and noticed there are quite a lot of songs published there. They'll typically show the album cover as a still photo, and the song will play. I realize it's not stereo and it's not high quality recording, but it still seems rather suspicious. Is it legal to make posts like that on youtube-like sites? I imagine you'd need special equipment to capture the recordings, but it still seems wrong.


Actually you don't special equipment to capture music, at least from the internet. Windows Media Encoder is a free download that will capture any music you're listening to over the internet. It captures vids too.

_________________
"is that a real poncho...i mean
Is that a mexican poncho
Or is that a sears poncho?
Hmmm...no foolin ...." FZ


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:55 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:59 pm
Posts: 395
I was just reading an article in the newspaper asking the same ? and It said simply viewing the song shouldnt land you in trouble. Those who post videos or songs could get in trouble. This qoute was from Kim Komando from the Gannett news service


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:22 pm
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:05 am
Posts: 133
Location: UK
you don't even need to download an application.

Sites like vixy.net and keepvid.com allow you to download videos in all formats from youtube , even just as an mp3.

I've never done it mind you. Bad quality music doesn't stimulate the brain as well.

_________________
Turn the drums up in the umm, ear goggles


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:43 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:26 pm
Posts: 2849
Location: Green Bay, WI
I thought if you're not making profit from it you're ok. That's why on live shows, people can play covers with out permission, the money they make is off the ticket sales, not the song(s) they play.

_________________
Rez(# 30916)
'89 Power Jazz Bass Special-BadAssIII, EMG P/J
Project PBass-EMG PX, Schaller BM Light Tuner
'05 Aerodyne JBass
'06 Spector Legend Custom Neck Through
VT Bass
Hartke TA5000 w/XL Cabs(210, 410, 115)


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:46 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:57 am
Posts: 13164
Location: Peckham: where the snow leopards roam
aidanshah wrote:
I don't see the problem, but it is surely not legal, unless the publishing rights are part of the public domain. In the UK I believe it is 50 years and in the US 75 years.


In fact it moved from 50 years to 75 years worldwide (tell the Chinese). Timed from the death of the artist/writer/whatever in question, not from the moment of publishing/recording. That's how with all sorts of people who'd died more than 50 years earlier their material went out of copyright and then came back in again when it was changed to 75 years.

75 years from last week you'll be able to perform and record Rick Wright's music without paying his estate - assuming he still owned his own copyright, of course. (Those EMI contracts were legendary...)

In the UK and maybe elsewhere the Performing Rights people have been getting very heavy indeed recently, in all kinds of strange areas. Places like restaurants, bars and such have always been supposed to have a license to play recorded music. Now employers are getting prosecuted if they don't have a license just for playing music radio for the entertainment of their employees. The cost goes up steeply depending on how many employees are listening - regardless of whether they are enjoying what they are hearing or not!

Several test cases have already been brought and people fined stingingly. Even taxi drivers are meant to have a license if they play the radio and a customer can hear it: the taxi is a public space/place of work. Haven't heard of a taxi driver being prosecuted yet, though. But there's a lot of people suddenly reading the small print in Intellectual Property Rights legislation very carefully - and nervously.

As far as YouTube and such are concerned, I had an idea they came to a major financial agreement with the music industry not so long ago over rights, and a lot of money changed hands. I don't know detail on that, though.

Cheers - C


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:32 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:04 pm
Posts: 7056
Location: South Florida
PowerJazzBass wrote:
I thought if you're not making profit from it you're ok. That's why on live shows, people can play covers with out permission, the money they make is off the ticket sales, not the song(s) they play.


Not sure that's exactly right since people are there to hear you play. Anyway, if you do it by the book, the concert promoter and/or the venue should have a license from one or more of the performing rights organizations (PROs) -- BMI, ASCAP, SESAC -- in the U.S. They collect the licensing fees and distribute royalties to the writers of the songs you performed. At least that's how it's supposed to work in a perfect world. I think they just go after the big acts now.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:29 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:33 pm
Posts: 1084
Location: NoHo in SoCal
stratmansteve wrote:
PowerJazzBass wrote:
I thought if you're not making profit from it you're ok. That's why on live shows, people can play covers with out permission, the money they make is off the ticket sales, not the song(s) they play.


Not sure that's exactly right since people are there to hear you play. Anyway, if you do it by the book, the concert promoter and/or the venue should have a license from one or more of the performing rights organizations (PROs) -- BMI, ASCAP, SESAC -- in the U.S. They collect the licensing fees and distribute royalties to the writers of the songs you performed. At least that's how it's supposed to work in a perfect world. I think they just go after the big acts now.


I've never heard of anyone going after local groups doing covers. It may be (as my mom, who worked in TV years ago told me) just that letting local acts cover your songs is good advertising. They could probably charge you, but how many local bands could afford to keep track of and remit royalties every time they played their set list? Then too, it seems there'd be extreme difficulties in tracking down who's playing what in every bar, school gym and whatever in the country.

Different story probably once you record a cover and start selling the disk, not your performance. Community and school groups also always (or at least are supposed to) get rights to do a performance.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:18 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:57 am
Posts: 13164
Location: Peckham: where the snow leopards roam
philip602 wrote:
stratmansteve wrote:
PowerJazzBass wrote:
I thought if you're not making profit from it you're ok. That's why on live shows, people can play covers with out permission, the money they make is off the ticket sales, not the song(s) they play.


Not sure that's exactly right since people are there to hear you play. Anyway, if you do it by the book, the concert promoter and/or the venue should have a license from one or more of the performing rights organizations (PROs) -- BMI, ASCAP, SESAC -- in the U.S. They collect the licensing fees and distribute royalties to the writers of the songs you performed. At least that's how it's supposed to work in a perfect world. I think they just go after the big acts now.


I've never heard of anyone going after local groups doing covers. It may be (as my mom, who worked in TV years ago told me) just that letting local acts cover your songs is good advertising. They could probably charge you, but how many local bands could afford to keep track of and remit royalties every time they played their set list? Then too, it seems there'd be extreme difficulties in tracking down who's playing what in every bar, school gym and whatever in the country.

Different story probably once you record a cover and start selling the disk, not your performance. Community and school groups also always (or at least are supposed to) get rights to do a performance.


Like StratmanSteve said, the venue has a live music license and the band's contribution (via a portion of ticket sales) to performing rights comes out of that. Obviously, the sum goes into a general pot rather than being appointed to the copyright owner of each individual song played.

If you record a CD (or other media) and sell it without paying royalties to the copyright owner of each song covered then you are breaking the law, plain and simple. If anyone ever comes after you damages will be much bigger than the original fee would have been. Look at all the money that belatedly had to be paid out after the sampling thing got going, years ago. Administering all of that is part of what recording/publishing companies exist for.

Consult performing rights regulations and act accordingly. After all, one day it may be your material that is being protected! You'll feel differently about it then.

Cheers - C


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:34 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:50 pm
Posts: 395
Location: Alabama
philip602 wrote:
stratmansteve wrote:
PowerJazzBass wrote:
I thought if you're not making profit from it you're ok. That's why on live shows, people can play covers with out permission, the money they make is off the ticket sales, not the song(s) they play.


Not sure that's exactly right since people are there to hear you play. Anyway, if you do it by the book, the concert promoter and/or the venue should have a license from one or more of the performing rights organizations (PROs) -- BMI, ASCAP, SESAC -- in the U.S. They collect the licensing fees and distribute royalties to the writers of the songs you performed. At least that's how it's supposed to work in a perfect world. I think they just go after the big acts now.


I've never heard of anyone going after local groups doing covers. It may be (as my mom, who worked in TV years ago told me) just that letting local acts cover your songs is good advertising. They could probably charge you, but how many local bands could afford to keep track of and remit royalties every time they played their set list? Then too, it seems there'd be extreme difficulties in tracking down who's playing what in every bar, school gym and whatever in the country.



That's cause the record industry lawyers don't go after the bands. They send "scouts" out to individual clubs to see what's being played in there, and if the club doesn't have a license, then that club will get some hefty fines. A couple of bars/clubs in the North Alabama area (that reputable acts stayed away from anyway) got closed down not too long ago because they couldn't stay open after they got sued by the music industry people.

The licenses aren't actually all that expensive each year, especially when you look at the fact that an umbrella license is MUCH cheaper than the money you'll pay if you get taken to court.

_________________
Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet - Maj. Gen. James Mattis, USMC


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:40 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:55 am
Posts: 302
Location: Oneida, NY
I remember a club owner (where I used to play) complained about getting hassled by both BMI & ASCAP several times a year, like it was some kind of 'protection racket' shake-down. He eventually stopped hiring bands and got rid of the jukebox. However, I'm sure he finally shut down & sold out due to DWI (or DUI) insurance claims & law suits, plus the fact that local police regularly 'buzzed' & 'vultured' his customers, especially at closing time. (BTW: In this case, "shut down & sold out" meant suspected arson.)


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:21 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 15336
Location: In a galaxy far far away
Tony (lionel) Blair introduced the stringent enforcement of the copyright laws into england. Prior to implementation there was lots of hype about bands being fined and having to pay performace royalties to music managment companies (like prs who handle royalties from jukebox plays).
I've heard of attempted prosecution of bands twice for playing covers. I dont know how the cases ended.
Seems rather funny to me, Mr blair is said to be a guitarist and owns several fenders.
Personaly i think the french had the right idea, guillotine democracy.

_________________
No no and no


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: