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Post subject: Re: Windows 7 (end of support)
Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:58 pm
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Imagine a TV station. We had audio, video, and operation files. Backup, Backup, Backup. Get this. On tape! Oh sure, other methods were used but a lot of data was on tape because it was (and still is in some camps) thought that other formats might change or be at risk. Just like the Library of Congress migrated from digital back to microfilm for security reasons, they and others, including industry, can be found to keep their backups in an very secure area far from the source of everyday activity. More often than not it is in a different media or format than the original, or it is the original.

I have to step over my hard copies and multiple hard drive backups. I found short term and long term use for the many floppies left over from when they were common. Storage size is not their strong point, but good for other things, such as long term storage, that don’t take up valuable space otherwise. If it’s in my hand it’s not in theirs. :wink:
That’s the problem with online. More of what we have is held online and not downloadable to where we can back it up. These are at the providers’ choice if you can have access now or later and that backup of yours may be of no use without change in part or in whole. This appears to be trending; but, some is better than none. Do you trust online storage as backup? How about as a tool for distribution or documentation. Ask those who lost photos here. No hacker need apply. :wink:
FSB

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Post subject: Re: Windows 7 (end of support)
Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:11 pm
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ghost_of_strings wrote:
Just a little PSA for those of you still using Windows 7:

What happens when Windows 7 support ends?
Microsoft strongly recommends that you move to a new PC running Windows 10


So, I need a NEW PC running Windows 10?

What makes Microsoft so sure that my current pc won't run Windows 10?

What makes Microsoft so sure I'm not running Windows 7 in a virtual machine that essentially is a "fresh install of Windows 7( or XP)" every time I boot it?

What makes Microsoft so sure my version of 7 or XP boots from the "normal location on the hard drive"? Mine doesn't, which means the last year or so of one particular update won't run on my pc because it doesn't boot from the "normal" location.

Maybe Microsoft is "colluding" with pc manufacturers.

ghost_of_strings wrote:
Especially when it comes to business because people like me can lose our jobs for having known out-of-date Windows on our network.


Trust me, Microsoft has plenty of provisions for businesses to make sure your pc has the latest updates as long as your business is willing to "subscribe" to it. BYOD, bring your own device to work? Yeah, they'll allow it maybe. They might even allow it to connect to the wireless network. There is no way they will allow it to connect without the proper certificates, though.

If HR is looking for an excuse to fire you, they will find an excuse that will hold up in court, they won't rely solely on your computer habits.

ghost_of_strings wrote:
Well what the fear monger press tends to leave out of the headlines is the fact that Microsoft usually has these vulnerabilities patched pretty immediately.

Who's the fear monger here? The press repeating Microsoft's press releases? Or might it be Microsoft?

So, if you're the average home user, yes, you should be concerned. Hackers generally go for the most PCs they can compromise, which means something running the latest version of Windows. Due to the large numbers of Windows 7 currently out there, that is a concern also.
Have an Apple or running Linux? You're less at risk, but nothing is completely safe.

Happy "Data Privacy Day"
Data privacy? Not sure what that means anymore. Hope you're not using Facebook. Or using Chrome.

Sorry, had to edit.

Devices in your house connected to IoT? They're not really safe either. Neither is your car.


Last edited by vinyl on Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Windows 7 (end of support)
Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:57 pm
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vinyl wrote:
ghost_of_strings wrote:
Just a little PSA for those of you still using Windows 7:

What happens when Windows 7 support ends?
Microsoft strongly recommends that you move to a new PC running Windows 10


So, I need a NEW PC running Windows 10?

What makes Microsoft so sure that my current pc won't run Windows 10?

That's a great point. I didn't notice the deceptive wording there. Out of the 10 or so Dell models we had at work, 3 of them were fine for Windows 10 (with upgraded memory and SSD). So no, not necessarily a new PC. But get off Windows 7. The time has come.

vinyl wrote:
ghost_of_strings wrote:
Especially when it comes to business because people like me can lose our jobs for having known out-of-date Windows on our network.
Trust me, Microsoft has plenty of provisions for businesses to make sure your pc has the latest updates as long as your business is willing to "subscribe" to it. If it doesn't, it will never get past the firewall to the internet.
wait... what? So if you run an on-premise WSUS server and don't approve any updates, your PCs won't be able to connect to the internet? Pretty sure they would.

vinyl wrote:
ghost_of_strings wrote:
Well what the fear monger press tends to leave out of the headlines is the fact that Microsoft usually has these vulnerabilities patched pretty immediately.

Who's the fear monger here? The press repeating Microsoft's press releases? Or might it be Microsoft?

The press. Why in the world would Microsoft want to draw attention to flaws in their product other than to protect future sales?

vinyl wrote:
So, if you're the average home user, yes, you should be concerned. Hackers generally go for the most PCs they can compromise, which means something running the latest version of Windows.
Again, NO. They look for an easy target first.
That's like saying if the majority of people used state-of-the-art security system, the burglars would be looking for those houses.
That kind of logic just doesn't make sense (sorry).

vinyl wrote:
Due to the large numbers of Windows 7 currently out there, that is a concern also.
Have an Apple or running Linux? You're less at risk, but nothing is completely safe
A computer with no wireless or wired connectivity cannot be hacked from outside the physical location.


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Post subject: Re: Windows 7 (end of support)
Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:56 am
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vinyl wrote:
So, I need a NEW PC running Windows 10?

What makes Microsoft so sure that my current pc won't run Windows 10?

What makes Microsoft so sure I'm not running Windows 7 in a virtual machine that essentially is a "fresh install of Windows 7( or XP)" every time I boot it?

What makes Microsoft so sure my version of 7 or XP boots from the "normal location on the hard drive"? Mine doesn't, which means the last year or so of one particular update won't run on my pc because it doesn't boot from the "normal" location.

Maybe Microsoft is "colluding" with pc manufacturers.


Apple did the same filthy trick with macOS by removing support from older Macs, which is not surprising. Anyone who want upgrading to a newer version of macOS should also buy a compatible Mac.


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Post subject: Re: Windows 7 (end of support)
Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:13 pm
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chromeface wrote:
. . . Anyone who want upgrading to a newer version of macOS should also buy a compatible Mac.
That’s the beauty of owning a computer. Choose your poison ‘cause it’s likely they’ll all kill you or die themselves sooner than later these days after you get them. The way things are going, it won’t be long until a lot of those older and used desktops and laptops sitting on the shelves will either be shipped to a recycling worker overseas or to the landfill. Not as we know it today, but as we’ve never seen it, perhaps spinning off more unnecessary carbon footprint and pollution. Better design or use may be a better answer.

Sure, we have jets, but there are occasions where even a DC-3 will get the job done. How about that 737 Max? Now there’s new software for ya. :wink:
Computers should have idiot lights instead of prompts to tell you to do updates on a regular schedule. I have a new printer that more or less does that all too often. So often that I question if it really is an update or a data retriever. I find it interesting that a computer calls their software’s shortcomings, whether by fix or design, an update. The automobile industry calls it a recall.

If you have predictable damage expecting to be done by another, you don’t leave the door open. You lock it! Not after the fact when known or unknown damage is at your door. Call it luck if the villain doesn’t take up the opportunity that is presented from poor planning and adequate prevention, You survey your surroundings and lock it from the start. Sure, exceptions occur and there will always be new villains . . . but, they should be exceptions. Vigilence and good planning should not be an exception.

I spent time with a friend who was a concours judge (a committee chosen highly qualified and respected expert of originality) of antique cars. He informed me that Ford was a company that kept material that related to decades of their designs and that, if the parts were not available, each and every production vehicle could have parts made based on stored documentation (at a cost to those who submitted a request) . Similarly, exact carpets and upholstery were very often available by the original manufacturer(s) or owners of the same. Although, with the global suppliers and forward movement (did I really say forward?) to electrics and such, I can’t say this is still the case.

Computers with their OS quirks, browsers, and other support, and my Windows phone in a drawer? - Fuggedaboutit.

Meanwhile, Mrs. FSB is still using my old / her new iPhone 5s and it has iOS 12.4.4 released Dec 10, 2019 (believed to be it’s last update for this phone and some other gear). It has pretty much what the X has step by step and that includes security. Not bad so says a former Windows fan. I will still use a newer version of Windows, but I can’t say it floats my boat like in the past. Things might be slicker, but have we really gained that much aside from speed and sharper images? I’m betting we have, but I’m betting the advances or availability doesn’t come close to being owned, used, or even understood by a majority. Apple is a love / hate relationship, and Android for me is a have been there done that. The advantages with Windows 10 is that it is a new system built for today. The downside for some is that it is built for today. Apple OS has been a good system. A plus. A minus is that it is mature and some claim that time is running out for Apple, as we know it, to meet tomorrow’s needs. Tomorrow should be interesting. In this house it’s more of “what do I have to manage today?”, and “what do I need to do it?”

I don’t go overboard with computer excitement like when I first discovered all the fun. They’re tools with fun thrown in, and while things are slicker, I found if you buy right you’ll get some longevity if you are lucky. My first one (1995) lasted 12 years, and development of Games and Architectural design used similar. My current one (2007) is a media powerhouse HDMI and HDTV out (with an internal TV tuner) complete with 7 ch surround sound with an HD/Blu-ray player. Still better than some, but slowing down with age like me, and neither of us can get the makeover desired, but we keep chugging along and the Mrs. ain’t getting a new one. :lol:
Speaking of cars and computers there is a relationship, and OSs will come together eventually, and they have in some part. Note: It will come with little management unless you intend to live in the car or run back to the dealer with your wallet to constantly update. Frankly, I’d like some of those features to be options. I’d also like to rip some of those needless invasive and unrevealed features off the wiring harness; but, that’s another security topic for when you sign that sales or repair document. :wink:
How’s that for an update?
:P
FSB

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Post subject: Re: Windows 7 (end of support)
Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:05 pm
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ghost_of_strings wrote:
vinyl wrote:
ghost_of_strings wrote:
Just a little PSA for those of you still using Windows 7:

What happens when Windows 7 support ends?
Microsoft strongly recommends that you move to a new PC running Windows 10


So, I need a NEW PC running Windows 10?

What makes Microsoft so sure that my current pc won't run Windows 10?

That's a great point. I didn't notice the deceptive wording there. Out of the 10 or so Dell models we had at work, 3 of them were fine for Windows 10 (with upgraded memory and SSD). So no, not necessarily a new PC. But get off Windows 7. The time has come.

So you're admitting that 30% of your workstations needed upgrading and 70% of them wouldn't even run Windows 10? Glad I'm not your CIO.

ghost_of_strings wrote:
Especially when it comes to business because people like me can lose our jobs for having known out-of-date Windows on our network.

You're liable for that? Most people in a business don't have the rights to install updates, or anything else.
Trust me, Microsoft has plenty of provisions for businesses to make sure your pc has the latest updates as long as your business is willing to "subscribe" to it. If it doesn't, it will never get past the firewall to the internet.[/quote]
ghost_of_strings wrote:
wait... what? So if you run an on-premise WSUS server and don't approve any updates, your PCs won't be able to connect to the internet? Pretty sure they would.

Yes I'll give you that, but if you have a WSUS you should know which workstations have updates, which ones don't, and which ones didn't answer a query by the WSUS.

vinyl wrote:
ghost_of_strings wrote:
Well what the fear monger press tends to leave out of the headlines is the fact that Microsoft usually has these vulnerabilities patched pretty immediately.

Who's the fear monger here? The press repeating Microsoft's press releases? Or might it be Microsoft?

ghost_of_strings wrote:
The press. Why in the world would Microsoft want to draw attention to flaws in their product other than to protect future sales?

Microsoft draws attention to flaws by publishing an update. The press merely "parrots' them. Many of which are flaws that require "console" access. So not only does a hacker need physical access to the workstation, then they need a password. Unless some idiot left it "unlocked"

vinyl wrote:
So, if you're the average home user, yes, you should be concerned. Hackers generally go for the most PCs they can compromise, which means something running the latest version of Windows.
ghost_of_strings wrote:
Again, NO. They look for an easy target first.
That's like saying if the majority of people used state-of-the-art security system, the burglars would be looking for those houses.
That kind of logic just doesn't make sense (sorry).


My point exactly, although I didn't make it very well. The easiest target is the latest unpatched version of Windows.

vinyl wrote:
Due to the large numbers of Windows 7 currently out there, that is a concern also.
Have an Apple or running Linux? You're less at risk, but nothing is completely safe
ghost_of_strings wrote:
A computer with no wireless or wired connectivity cannot be hacked from outside the physical location.


Which makes it pretty well useless. except for running FUSE.


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Post subject: Re: Windows 7 (end of support)
Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:03 pm
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Wow Vinyl this is getting wordy. Don't update then. I won't argue the point with someone who thinks a computer is "useless" without an internet connection. :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Windows 7 (end of support)
Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:41 pm
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Yes, got wordy.
My point is Microsoft and Apple "scare" you into upgrading. Instead of convincing you the benefits of upgrading are worthwhile.
Much like TV commercials for "insurance" for your home appliances, or your car. Unless you haven't changed your oil. Nothing lasts forever.

I'm not saying don't upgrade. Just don't cave to fear mongers. They're nothing but terrorists.


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Post subject: Re: Windows 7 (end of support)
Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:25 pm
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ghost_of_strings wrote:
Wow Vinyl this is getting wordy. Don't update then. I won't argue the point with someone who thinks a computer is "useless" without an internet connection. :lol:
Hey there, Ghost and vinyl. I began when the home PC desktop might have had no internal modem (still can actually) and dial up was so slow it was teetering on big deal if you had an external one.

Having lived on an island in the west coast, ordering a PC from North Dakota, and having to troubleshoot by phone after the service plan ran out before and/or after costly online phone charges by the minute, those days with no videos to help, YouTube or otherwise, were ridiculous; but, you learned how to solve problems and explore the guts yourself pretty quickly.

High speed Internet - Yessiree! Sluggish Internet Zzzzzz. No Internet. Well, perhaps, it was better when most of the show was preloaded or on that floppy or CD in your hands at home which you needed because reformatting was a reoccurring theme. Hacker or no hacker. Security was a ride by the seat of our pants and even password protection proved to be a risk.:lol:
Cheers!
FSB

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Post subject: Re: Windows 7 (end of support)
Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:23 pm
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
ghost_of_strings wrote:
Wow Vinyl this is getting wordy. Don't update then. I won't argue the point with someone who thinks a computer is "useless" without an internet connection. :lol:
Hey there, Ghost and vinyl. I began when the home PC desktop might have had no internal modem (still can actually) and dial up was so slow it was teetering on big deal if you had an external one.

Having lived on an island in the west coast, ordering a PC from North Dakota, and having to troubleshoot by phone after the service plan ran out before and/or after costly online phone charges by the minute, those days with no videos to help, YouTube or otherwise, were ridiculous; but, you learned how to solve problems and explore the guts yourself pretty quickly.

High speed Internet - Yessiree! Sluggish Internet Zzzzzz. No Internet. Well, perhaps, it was better when most of the show was preloaded or on that floppy or CD in your hands at home which you needed because reformatting was a reoccurring theme. Hacker or no hacker. Security was a ride by the seat of our pants and even password protection proved to be a risk.:lol:
Cheers!
FSB


How about no internet? The first modems I dealt with at work were 1200 baud. About the size of a pc, and weighed about 60 pounds. Had to be manually "equalized" 10 knobs for receive, and 10 knobs for transmit. An analog meter for equalization. We also had 4800 baud modems for video. Strictly for "mainframe communication". Prior to that, it was pretty much "microfiche".

When external modems got to a manageable size, and when a home pc became available, the internet was still a pipedream for home users. Bulletin boards and ICQ were the sources of info back then. And the first viruses showed up. But even back then, antivirus programs got their start, and updates for detecting them were available via bulletin boards.

My point is technology has come a very long way from those days. Everything was analog. The beginning of using analog to transmit digital information, but still analog. In my lifetime, we've gone from 300 baud modems to 40 gigabit and beyond. That's pretty freakin' amazing. I'm glad I got to be involved with that, even if it was in a very small way. Kinda like going from first flight to supersonic travel. And I got paid to do it.

We live now in a digital age. Yet, we still only see and hear in analog. Ain't that sorta like a paradox?

Cheers,


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Post subject: Re: Windows 7 (end of support)
Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:32 am
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vinyl wrote:
. . . When external modems got to a manageable size, and when a home pc became available, the internet was still a pipedream for home users. Bulletin boards and ICQ were the sources of info back then. And the first viruses showed up. But even back then, antivirus programs got their start, and updates for detecting them were available via bulletin boards.

My point is technology has come a very long way from those days. Everything was analog. The beginning of using analog to transmit digital information, but still analog. In my lifetime, we've gone from 300 baud modems to 40 gigabit and beyond. That's pretty freakin' amazing. I'm glad I got to be involved with that, even if it was in a very small way. Kinda like going from first flight to supersonic travel. And I got paid to do it.

We live now in a digital age. Yet, we still only see and hear in analog. Ain't that sorta like a paradox?

Cheers,
Yup! Good post vinyl. Bulletin boards and ICQ were lifesavers for me for research, entertainment, and troubleshooting. They saved $$ too.

Anything music related was no man’s territory with suspicion of hackers and viruses lurking. Other questionable genres such as sex related were also another danger zone, and the list went on, and still does today even with the advances made. But, the ability to converse with text, audio, and video was much bigger than all of the downsides. FTP gave us another library to send, store, and retrieve, and there are a slew of other practices that preceded our present day socializing. Some of the old ways were dumbed down, expanded, or redirected and yet, because of simple queries and dedicated and sometimes restricted access there can be very useful purposes to carry these boards and features over today. Now, particularly when and where the first roads are taken, with monopolies and management, all roads can lead to Rome when you’d like to not take the scenic route and go directly to Modena. Some of those detours are loaded with hidden danger too. Analytics have taken over in most cases. Good if you want, bad if you don’t.

Computing surely was sluggish back then. Eventually we left the backroads, got on the highway, and now we’re on the Autobahn.

On the flip side I’ve had occasions, when troubleshooting, to see data run up the screen at warp speed, and I wished it hadn’t. Fast? To quote vinyl, “Supersonic!” There is no argument and no contest except, perhaps, when an OS is frowned upon because it is packed with thought to be frivolous or less desired features within it’s design. Take it to a more barebones design, release another OS, and then pack it with desired programming and/or features, depending on your flavour, to bring it back to a sluggish state on those very same machines. Solution? Buy another machine, perhaps with another OS, and the race goes on. Not every one wants an F1 when a Porsche or a Mini Cooper (which Enzo Ferrari also drove daily as other cars like Fiat) will do. I guess if you are fortunate to have an F1 you’ll want the Porsche and Mini off the route and on the side of the road or in the scrap heap.

Incidentally, Last summer in BC’s Okanogan I had the opportunity to watch a supercar and a Mini running times on the same track simultaneously. They both ran well despite the differences.

FSB

Note: Today’s computers are a pleasure to record instruments with and for post production and mastering. This is not new after being able to do this for decades; however, it’s WAY better. Without adequate security and backup, restoring music software can be at risk if not impossible (especially with all the advancements made). User beware. :wink:

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