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Post subject: Re: Your home recording gear?
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:52 pm
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Thanks, Mike. Advents, huh? I remember those. Classics. The Advent bookshelf speakers were popular here; although, I never saw your models. Nice.

I have some otherwise mint JBL 86s in limbo because they’ve had woofers redone twice, They are the smaller brothers of the famous L 100s.
As usual, one woofer is blown again and the other is functioning. The crossover is suspect, but I am probably incorrect and It is difficult to access. They were sent across country for repair (they did a lousy job), some years ago. But, alas, fixing woofers is no surprise with the older JBLs for sure. Now I have a problem removing the woofer with the beauty rings not releasing, as far as can tell, which I’ll try again down the road, maybe, as the black walnut cabs are in great shape as are the grill covers, etc. I don’t give up easily. I checked out your LSR305s and with a sub and the HF design that you have the JBLs should rock for monitoring. 8)
I also knew of Henry Kloss and KLH because I had some components from where I don’t recall. His name and accomplishments were the stuff found in HiFidelity and Audiophile magazines of the 70s. I did not know of his association with the cassette deck, however, and with Dolby it made sense.

All in all your setup speaks for itself. :wink:
- Gary

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Post subject: Re: Your home recording gear?
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:34 am
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A friend of mine worked for Kloss Video in Cambridge. They had just designed the
projector and mounts. He told me Henry was always in deep thought even walking
through the hallways of the old factory building. He was able to get himself (and me)
a good deal on those prototype monitors that were to be used with their video gear.

https://www.inc.com/magazine/19811001/8149.html

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Post subject: Re: Your home recording gear?
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:42 pm
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
Miami Mike wrote:
This was my setup from about 6 years ago. It's changed and grown quite a bit since moving in 2014.

Image
Well, that’s a pretty nice setup you have there, Mike. Gives me an idea. I recently brought home an extra TV/Monitor (32”) that belonged to my Mom, and I haven’t decided where to put it as I also have my mother-in-law’s plus two of our own. I thought I might use it for lyrics with a page turner. Your arrangement would be a great alternative solution. I’m guessing you are running two computers here? Are your speakers (monitors) Yammys or JBLs?

Love the alarm clock. Puts a whole new meaning to a studio and working by the clock. :lol:

Hey Mike, what's up with your image posts? 3 day limit? I use imgbb, but the 16MB limit is per image as far as I can tell. None of my images get deleted, I understand if you don't actually want them to be visible, but best I can tell, the limit for a single image size is 16 MB, not 16 MB Total.

Not criticizing, I just want to see some of your images beyond a finite number of days. Apologies if that is not your intent, your images are yours, not mine, I just think people might benefit from actually being able to see them for more than a limited number of days.

Don't agree? That's fine, just say so.
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Post subject: Re: Your home recording gear?
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:02 pm
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Miami Mike wrote:
A friend of mine worked for Kloss Video in Cambridge. They had just designed the
projector and mounts. He told me Henry was always in deep thought even walking
through the hallways of the old factory building. He was able to get himself (and me)
a good deal on those prototype monitors that were to be used with their video gear.

https://www.inc.com/magazine/19811001/8149.html
Nice grab, Mike. That must have been a treat. :mrgreen: I once grabbed a high end set our company had on exhibition at Expo ‘87. But, prior to that in the early 70s a problem ridden beauty of a new trending Mitsubishi had us receive what was touted as the most expensive tv made in USA (I didn’t know it until now) by Texas made Curtis Mathes the last major American builder at one time. Unknowingly, ironically my brother 1500 miles away bought the identical set about the same time. It held modular replaceable boards, and like our monitors at work you flipped three switches independently just to where you can’t see the red, green, and blue, scan line(s) across the black screen. Flick them all on and the three lines should be white after tweaking out any and all of the three colours. Flick them off and the set was optimized. I wasn’t always lucky to get good TVs though. I was on holiday when chosen to be a spokesperson giving my recommendation on an XL-100 TV alongside my RCA Studio camera for a commercial. A stand-in rookie cameraman got my XL 100, and told me about my missed opportunity when I returned. He said, “I have your tv at home.” I got the last laugh because he didn’t get the commercial on tv. :lol: It would have been my first colour tv. :cry: :roll:
What a great thorough and interesting linked article. I remember those two piece projectors, and Advent’s name attached to their video efforts. I’m a fan of Aston Martin ever since I saw an old master pounding a fender by hand on his knee at the plant and, knowing the car was hand made like in the old days, it’s not hard to see Henry taking an interest. Looking at Kloss’ interests, it would seem that he wasn’t focused, but on the other hand there are contradicting clues that he was.

I was a member at head office when a television network was formed, and I was privy to stories of how high rollers play that game to outwit the other guy for bragging rights. Sad Kloss’ endeavours, especially with Advent, didn’t have a better outcome. That’s so often the case when there is so much division of a business plan. Imagine Disney corporation struggling with that. :wink:
As for audio, with speakers we’ve been talking JBL, Advents, and KLH. I have another set of speakers that, alas, has one woofer that also took a hike. That is historical Dynaco A-25s (picked them up at a local church sale for $40 without grill covers or name plates, but being older I knew what they were) and a lot of reviews compare them, apples to oranges, with JBL100s, the Advent Loudspeaker, and several KLHs of the era. I got $40 use out of them so they don’t owe me. They might have been good for monitors though and then again maybe not. New speakers have their advantages, but it depends on the application as to which are better as you well know. It’s subjective with some ground rules, specs aside. Good speakers with bad amplification. Bad speakers with good amplification. Crossover craziness in a 2.1 setup, and knowing what to listen for with some sort of reference. Only as good as the weakest link, huh? That doesn’t mean break the bank for home studios. I’ve heard some pretty terrible stuff in pro studios too, and yes I’ve seen lamp cord and coax suffice where my Quest cables go. :wink: Horrors. My kid brother had Monster cable laid everywhere when his house was built. That’s okay too.

I spent a day back in the 70s for a manfacturer’s lecture on how to listen to speakers with blind tests and a written test. One of the best lectures I’ve experienced. Turntable versus high end digital blind tests, and other great examples were Saturday regular bookings.

Aw fuggedabout it. :lol:

Engineers don’t have any more golden ears than us, They have math and scopes and a team from the marketing department. They have us to use the toys. :D
FSB

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Post subject: Re: Your home recording gear?
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:02 am
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Old pipe smoking Henry Kloss was an interesting dude.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kloss

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Post subject: Re: Your home recording gear?
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:10 am
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This looks a great deal for someone looking to record up to six tracks on a stand alone unit :

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... cam-dp-006

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Post subject: Re: Your home recording gear?
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:17 pm
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Miami Mike wrote:
This looks a great deal for someone looking to record up to six tracks on a stand alone unit :

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... cam-dp-006
That does look pretty good, especially for the price, Mike.

One caution for these kind of units though. Generally, you get what you pay for, and once in a blue moon you’ll get better than you expected. However, some of these mini studios are taken for their features rather than their quality and, for the hobbyist, rehearsals, and demos, they more often than not do just fine. Not to say a finished song couldn’t and hasn’t been done. We all know of one take hits; but, it may require mastering and tweaks as another step, and a master is not what these are best at. It’s not enough that the recorder is digital. It’s what’s up front that counts. IMHO

Take, for example, digital to digital recording versus analog to digital. Either method can work fine, have done so for years and do so in pro studios. Note: I said can work fine.

Not making a judgment on these great tools. For us old dudes, I can remember how stoked we were recording bands on similar analog cassette recorders with their basic little integrated mixers. Digital has made their improvements, and sometimes it works and sometimes . . . well, let’s say it could be better. There have been reports and reviews of difficult uncooperative software or less attention to signal to noise or crosstalk before it gets digitized. So, like most things in life, a close look will help in deciding the better choice.

Hey! Cassette recording was embraced and it wasn’t a Studer or Ampex reel to reel. All things being equal, I like the option of these mini studios wrapped into one and cassette recording is so yesterday except for that sweet home stereo vibe. :wink:

YMMV

FSB

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Post subject: Re: Your home recording gear?
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:22 am
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That's was the lowest priced one I saw. There are others :

https://tascam.com/us/category/PortaStu ... d_Trainers

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Post subject: Re: Your home recording gear?
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:33 am
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
The convenience of the USB on the Mustangs is über handy and I forgot to mention that. Are you preferring the mic or the USB with either the acoustic/electric, electric and/or bass? Have you taken a speaker emulation out from the hdst. jack?

I've used the USB more because there is pretty much zero noise. Makes a big difference when recording at home with semi-pro gear. I generally turn off speaker emulation on all patches. It does good things at low volumes, but not so much at high volumes (IMO).

Fender Strat Brat wrote:
Also, for those who are not aware because the manual is vague omitting this fact, as I know you are aware Ghost, it has been reported that those with Mustangs’ FX Send (at least with IIII. IV and V) can perform the same as a line out with all that the speaker plays. Unlike the usual response, the speaker will still function throughout unless the Return is plugged. I haven't tried It but that is the scuttle butt.

I did it that way a few times with my old standalone mixer/hard disk recorder. Works fine. I think the speaker emulation is removed when you do that.

Fender Strat Brat wrote:
Gotta ask how the Jazz Bass uses the Mustang amp setup. That’s pretty interesting

Nothing crazy. Without speakers involved, a guitar preamp works OK for bass. The EQ might be a little lacking, but it gets the job done.


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Post subject: Re: Your home recording gear?
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:11 am
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Miami Mike wrote:
That's was the lowest priced one I saw. There are others :

https://tascam.com/us/category/PortaStu ... d_Trainers
Now you’re talkin’. Some pretty beefy equipment there for the purpose.

Let me show you how home recording was done about sixty years ago . . . at least in my home. I still have my mint working vintage cream and pink lunch kit size Star-lite reel to reel from circa 1960. There appears to be a rebranding in the following video calling it a Miny, and it has been reported that this popular design same or similar over time from late 50s to early 60s can be found under many names such as Golden Eagle, Sonic, Westinghouse, a latter Radio Shack, and others. Some have no pause, no speed control, and still others use an integrated mic. Colours may vary.

With a calculated guess, I believe I have the original branding (can’t say for sure though), as Star-lite was a well known manufacturer of mini recorders that was trending for a period. My deck (with pause and speed control) was brought home by my Dad directly from Japan (as embossed on the underside), and it certainly is nothing like the all in one mini studios; but, at least we could record in mono without über expensive reel decks, and before 8 tracks, cassettes, and digital. :P


Adding to the mystery this following basic one is called a Star-lite Pacer:


I’m kinda stoked because I found these videos tonight, and I’ve never seen another like mine until now. :shock: They kept shrinking decks to fit in one’s pocket. Had it not been for these little guys and the others the cassette and Walkman may never have come our way, nor the mini studios. :idea:
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Post subject: Re: Your home recording gear?
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:17 am
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ghost_of_strings wrote:
Fender Strat Brat wrote:
The convenience of the USB on the Mustangs is über handy and I forgot to mention that. Are you preferring the mic or the USB with either the acoustic/electric, electric and/or bass? Have you taken a speaker emulation out from the hdst. jack?

I've used the USB more because there is pretty much zero noise. Makes a big difference when recording at home with semi-pro gear. I generally turn off speaker emulation on all patches. It does good things at low volumes, but not so much at high volumes (IMO).

Fender Strat Brat wrote:
Also, for those who are not aware because the manual is vague omitting this fact, as I know you are aware Ghost, it has been reported that those with Mustangs’ FX Send (at least with IIII. IV and V) can perform the same as a line out with all that the speaker plays. Unlike the usual response, the speaker will still function throughout unless the Return is plugged. I haven't tried It but that is the scuttle butt.

I did it that way a few times with my old standalone mixer/hard disk recorder. Works fine. I think the speaker emulation is removed when you do that.

Fender Strat Brat wrote:
Gotta ask how the Jazz Bass uses the Mustang amp setup. That’s pretty interesting

Nothing crazy. Without speakers involved, a guitar preamp works OK for bass. The EQ might be a little lacking, but it gets the job done.
Thanks, for your experience and take on your recording here, Ghost, Good info, passed on. :D
FSB

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Post subject: Re: Your home recording gear?
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:54 am
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Reel to reels came in all sizes and shapes but some of the Revox and Teac models
had "sound on sound" which was very cool way back when.

https://www.tonepublications.com/old-sc ... 7-and-b77/

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Post subject: Re: Your home recording gear?
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:20 pm
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Miami Mike wrote:
Reel to reels came in all sizes and shapes but some of the Revox and Teac/Tascam models
had "sound on sound" which was very cool way back when.
Yup! Sound on Sound and Sound with Sound sure rocked the house bringing you more options, and how about that tape reverb? Today digital emulates the original. :D I know Revox well, Ampex earlier, Nice
machine. Fostex, Otari, and Teac/Tascam, and to some extent Sony and Roberts could just as easily be found in the studio alongside a Scully or other, or in the home.

Why the love for tape? Just listen to the hits that are the history of Pop and Rock. Even today a deck or two will be found in the studio and at home to be used in some way. If the expense were less one might even find the use more prevalent. It can cost as much or more to maintain or refurbish a deck as it does to replace it with a used one, plus not everyone has the skills or tools to repair them. Rumour has it that magnetic tape is considered for manufacturing again where it has dwindled. Not so sure about that.

I have some paper audio tape somewhere, and the history of tape’s development can also be interesting. Here’s a tip to any who do or wish to partake in this decades old and proven technology. Don’t slap some SLH tape on your deck. Some tape formulas, shedding, lubrication and lack of contributed to abrasion. You might need to replace your tape heads. How do I know that? Been there done that. Beats replacing a computer though. :P While we’re on tape heads, glass like Akai tends to last very well (although, some trade offs not worth noting are prevalent), and those really nice Sendust heads can be difficult (and expensive) to replace if you can even get them, that’s my experience with a reversible programmable using both sides simultaneously (like a CD) with a more than hearing frequency and specs to give Nakamichi a head to head run for their money cassette deck worth over a grand only to find the manufacturer couldn’t or wouldn’t replace the heads. :?
One of my favourite recorders was a four channel Quad reel to reel / 8 track recorder Akai 1800 D-SS. Granted, 8 track cartridges aren’t the best, but they are similar to cartridges the broadcast industry embraced, and the selection of recordings is such that you will not find many of these gems in any other format stereo or surround sound; although, like everything else, online is making a difference.

What’s missing with most home recording today? Recording and playback with sufficient equipment, know how, and interest in surround sound. You’d think the industry would be promoting more surround sound recording and playback today, since it was awesome during Quad IMO. Even mobile gear is restrictive with limited availability. Phtt! Perhaps, there’s no interest in non directional bass, repetitive lyrics, and rap coming at you from all directions. Others might be hip to the hop of it. My guess is it’s a game amongst manufacturers who still don’t play nice together. Then again, maybe the media used to store the final product is lacking form and function (certainly in discrete surround channels). :|
Make me a digital porta-studio that records a surround sound master and I’m in. Oh yeah. Let those stereo companies know it’s 2020 and that the quadraphonic 70s passed us by half a century ago, and stereo (touching on surround sound in some case) was patented in 1933! Binaural soon after. While we’re at it with the porta-studio and DAWs, perhaps with plug-ins, add a little Atmos overhead to kick it up even further. 8)
Don't ya just love the rebuttal of, “But, we only have two ears!” :lol: Maybe, we could get better use of them. :wink:
FSB

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Post subject: Re: Your home recording gear?
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:54 pm
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A friend who owns a recording studio once told me a band paid him to
engineer an EP with a clause stating "it must sound good on a mobile phone!"

:shock:

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Post subject: Re: Your home recording gear?
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:23 pm
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Miami Mike wrote:
A friend who owns a recording studio once told me a band paid him to
engineer an EP with a clause stating "it must sound good on a mobile phone!"

:shock:
Great post, Mike. That pretty much says it all. I can’t say they were wrong to do that, but my guess is a lot of listeners have never taken the time to hear great audio or that they would know what to look for, or that they care to. With that in mind, this band obviously knows their customer.

Some of the premium audio stores where I once hung out at are now catering to the crowd who just want a Bluetooth hookup. The customer might not even know that WiFi speakers can even be a better choice; but, wired or wireless, Bluetooth or WiFi, one would do themselves a favour to take time to hear the best music system available to them regardless of cost, and with consideration for the listening environment. This practice might be an advantage when choosing an instrument too, but not always. Instruments give off a different mojo.

Once a reference is found, then and only then can a wise personal choice be found. Popular choice is often a chosen direction to go, but factors like promotion, perception, perhaps, falsely resting on historical reputation, and budget can play a part here unless it’s apples to apples, In fact I was thinking of monitors that are extremely popular, only to find better alternatives which I was not aware of. Luckily, I ran across better choices before I bite the bullet by chance. I still need to lend an ear or two, though.

I have a very cool high end smart phone as others have, and yet I’ve had basic non smart phones of yesteryear that, for phone audio to and from, blows the transistors off the present one. Music playback is not so different as long as it’s stuck in your ears.

I hear ya, Mike. Mobile along with non mobile audio oresponse is one of the great challenges in making a Master recording. Mobile hardware such as phones and tablets along with computers, cars, home stereos, and more yada yada mixes up the needs and the solution. I’m still confused how one gets a happy final mix compromise with varying playback hardware, different speakers and a collection of pods or headphones. Pick one, HaHa.

That’s where measuring instruments and standards can help either with hardware or software; but, you’ll need a reference or preferential goal to strive for. Automation is a nice feature too and mastering software can often find a sweet spot to satisfy . . . or when all else fails, ya can wing it, maybe get lucky, but that could take some time . . . or if you like to roll with the big bucks, you can send your work to a master to master. :P
FSB

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