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Post subject: (Whole) Home Humidification and related For Guitar(s) .
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:05 pm
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Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada
About 2000 square feet total.

Hi gang:

Thought I'd toss this subject around for me and others interested. (There are other places humidity is mentioned through the Forums, and I read some good opinions and information known and unknown. Because there is no one place for humidity issues, and being this comes up in various forms quite often, I thought I'd throw this into the mix for a different or added approach).

I'm getting something I really don't like; but, it can be an evil necessity as with me. YMMV. Here's my dilemma. Hardwood maple floors, windows that can frost in winter with condensation, perhaps nails or drywall doing their thing, static electricity, wood furniture, guitars and drums, health improvements and maybe health issues with humidifiers, upkeep and constant settings changes, water usage, and the list goes on for and against. Phtt! :lol:
Anyhow, minus the guitars, I have it together . . . well, sort of. Oh, add one more problem. Location. Okay, two problems. Climate change (inevitable no matter how one looks at the world after the Ice Age). Different strokes for different folks when it comes to these concerns. I once saw the innards of an otherwise beautiful $10,000 stereo amp being rebuilt because of Hong Kong rust. You got it. Humidity (and salt air).

Presently, I use Humidipaks and know all about the wet sponge in a baggy and all; but, I want to add the next step with whole house humidity. I've moved from the hot and cold extremes with solid wood, mahogany, maple, and spruce acoustics, including a 12 string that, perhaps by luck, never got the hee bee geebies, and this was without any special attention to humidity. The prairies had furnace humidifiers (not specifically with any concern for the guitar), and the west coast had none of any kind. Now I know that you can still have dry conditions most anywhere on the planet, west coast included. In the Amazon rain forest, I can't say. If I did have a problem in the Pacific Northwest I didn't notice it, and yet I know that isn't always the case. Oops! Did I really say that? :lol: Aside from room humidifiers, preferably in a controlled space with a door hahaha, stuffing the axes in a case or a gig bag and throwing in a sponge or pak, can a whole house humidifier manage the job at hand at 35% - 45% Relative Humidity (mind you outside temps of -20F, never min 40 below, degrees outside will negate that as using the humidifier will not be recommended), blah blah? To make matters more confusing, rooms can be different. House air leakage, and other factors play a part.

Okay, with that out of the way, here's my take for dry winter humidity and whole house humidifying:

1) Rotating drums that pick up water in trays tend to collect bacteria if they sit in stagnant water, which is often the case from lack of use or neglect. I'm told the washable plastic drum can also gather the same contaminants. Can't say. I got rid of the funky foam one years ago. Lots of marketing about ultra violet and steam but those are, as with HVAC, different with their own pros and cons.

2) It is said that water saving humidifiers with a paper wick need extra replacing based on somewhat questionable and manageable bacteria collection. They are, however, claimed to be 100% efficient. Those extra gallons in savings add up, and perhaps offset the cost of extra filters.

3) If you have roller coaster weather where, like this week it's in the 50s F then dropping to 20s F then back up to high 30s all in one week you might like to have your humidifier on automatic with an outside temperature sensor if possible. That's my goal, but it may not be possible with a thermostat / humidistat in the middle of the house or in another location.

4) You'll probably want to measure humidity in other rooms too; but, you'll need to decided where and how your optimum control is as you'll have to compromise room by room with a whole house.

5) No use having the biggest best water gulping humidifier any more than the biggest lawnmower for the smallest patch of grass. It may be more trouble than you need. Too much humidity can wreak havoc on your home and it's contents.

6) Some have suggested to hookup the humidifier to the hot rather than cold water. Makes sense as evaporation will be more efficient.

7) I'm okay with manual control, but having automatic presets, rather than being confusing, can with minor effort, simplify my better half's usage should she need to have adjustments that will come into play. Besides, once installed it's controls will be available for the next A/C to replace the old coolant one. Works with the phone too. Wowie Zowie! More management. :lol:
I'm pretty sure those pak and sponge thingies will be following me about. That's the beauty of owning guitars. Ya get to buy good stuff you want, and a lot of other stuff that just takes up space because you want to keep those things you want. My maple drums are wrapped in vinyl, one is all aluminum, one is chromed cast steel, and the cymbals are spun brass - no sponges need apply, :P
That's pretty much it. I know separate room humidifiers have their advantages, but duplication would occur in my project. Maybe, I'll add a small one to supplement the furnace mounted humidifier; however, I have low ceiling tiles in white they might not take too kindly too kindly to that. I'll probably have to accept less by design. I hope this is of some use with your comments.

Hey , Matt. If I recall correctly, elsewhere you said something about 30 RH working for your acoustics, do you still think that to be okay? My guess is that I'll see numbers similar between 30% and 35% relative humidity. Maybe 40 as it warms up. 50% RH I think is a long shot.

I'd be interested in what members here have found. First off, your location or area of the world, perhaps your general weather conditions and if they have changed in recent years, maybe large or small accommodations or characteristics, and if you use a whole home or other humidifier, whether you've made a change, how it's set up, and most of all your experience. Any or all of your experience may be of interest or help.

TIA

FSB

If I didn't have to buy into this, I coulda bought another bar fridge for the Music/ Family room. A big one stocked. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: (Whole) Home Humidification and related For Guitar(s) .
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:36 pm
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Great post Gary! Good luck finding your happy medium for your guitars.

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Post subject: Re: (Whole) Home Humidification and related For Guitar(s) .
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:09 am
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That is a big project, best of luck. I think I would aim small/miss small or do one room at a time. Dunno if thats even possible w/ your situation. My local is coastal, so I could box up a bunch of extra humidity and send it to you!! My daily level ranges from daytime/on-shore winds 65%HM to nighttime/off-shore winds 95%HM, never measured inside the house but it has leaks as most places typically do. I keep all my guitars in cases w/ packaged desiccant bags unless they are being played. In the couple months of winter I get, running the heat does dry things up significantly. But not so much I need to add any humidity, unless I happen to be sick and miserable then I might add some moisture using an old fashioned 1/2 gal. steamer w/o a towel over my head to the main room. Its easy to control, when you don't need to run it all day/night. Wish I could offer more advice then just really sealing your home and trying to control issues needed room by room.


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Post subject: Re: (Whole) Home Humidification and related For Guitar(s) .
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:12 am
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Thanks, Rollie. I’m guessing that the Windy City can mimic our weather, but the big C winter is not as severe, After all, they call this town the Chicago of the North. Although, I think you’ve got us beat by a lot (my having been there). :D
Thanks, for your take on this, sfceric64. I hear ya, and your location seems to condition your home humidity much like mine did on Vancouver Island. Right into the 60s and early 70s air conditioning was rare so in house dryness, and weather in general, in the summer was not as it was on the mainland. It’s similar to England. Moderate, light rain, sporadic short term snow or light rain in the winter with conditions similar to what you have, and I too did the head under the towel to steam my nasal passages. :lol:
Interestingly, climate change is not severe (aside from coastal waters and it’s surrounding issues); but, because natural gas did not heat older homes in a big way due to the need to blast rock for the imported fuel, when heating oil wasn’t used one was likely to have electric or radiator heat,

Personally, I like the lingering warmth of radiator heat. Electric heat is clean, but very dry and very expensive being that it is not efficient. It is convenient though. As for a basically air tight house, remember when that was trending, only to find out structure and health problems changed that idea, and today it has become more relaxed? Air tightness in a room maybe, but to completely renovate an older home at my age for that purpose would lead me to just buy another guitar with change left over (unless it was a prize possession for which it would be cased). One of those pricey funky climatized glass door cabinets would be welcomed. In my house I’d probably find white wine amongst my red in there though. :P
I agree individual humidifiers per room in theory would likely work, but that would not be practical in my home, also not having a water supply downstairs. I’d be singing the Fendermen’s Mule Skinner Blues all day, and playing the role of waterboy. Yada yada.

Here’s another, I’m being picky here, humidity matter to consider. Let’s say you have your nice guitar in a case where you’ve added your choice of sponge or desiccant and you have 50° humidity more or less in that storage. Now, just as your guitar gets to climatize itself from a car in the trunk of your car to a warm play area or vice versa, your guitar will to some minor extent, most times, have to do the same thing just taking it out in your home. Would it not? In my home, for example, it’ll be different from the gig bag or case when opened in the basement family room, than say in the upstairs living room which, perhaps in the spring, will have a fireplace (for backup if a power outage occurs, which it will eventually, on a wonderful 40 below winter day). Humidity TBA; nevertheless the room will not be 50% + or - RH like when in the case.

Okay. A step further. My Strat frets were shaved to prevent tiny razor cuts on my fingies a few years ago. It was a subtle problem; but, they could have been smoother from the get go, so I can’t say it was completely a home humidity problem; although, my environment played a part. I can tell you that in the L&M store, acoustics are climatized in their own closed acoustics room and, when built,
Canada’s largest wall of electrics hang in a shared open space with the rest of the store’s equipment. I wouldn’t think the measured humidity is at the high end of suggested percentage because my guess is it would affect the electronics. I dunno, maybe it is and does. It certainly would be difficult to control at a constant level throughout. Doors opening, nooks and crannies, heat related gear, building heat, or whatever. Those babies aren’t cased at the end of the day, Talk about the odds of grabbing a guitar that hasn’t had some humidity affect. Maybe yes, maybe no. Maybe it’s old, maybe it’s new. Same would be for home, No?

Obviously, a small music store would find itself in a different scenario with everything possibly in one open area. Hmm?

I’m beginning to think the build of the guitar, type of glue, bracing, wood, and whatnot is more to be considered
to meet the challenge of humidity.

Maybe, Brad or Fender has a recommended % RH or way of finding middle ground, :wink:
Or does it really matter? It’s not like I’m going to hang Segovia’s famed 1937 Hermann Hauser Sr. guitar on the wall (although, that would be nice). :mrgreen:
Golly gee. Dealing with guitars is like my audiophile tweaks of yesteryear. A lot of perfection and a lot of ballyhoo, They must have gone through a lot of stringed instruments in Medieval days. Either that or they truly were built like tanks and sounded like it. My guess is the latter. Moderate weather likely served many of them well. Hey! How about that shredder in the Sahara? Do you think he has a sponge? :lol:
FSB

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Post subject: Re: (Whole) Home Humidification and related For Guitar(s) .
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:47 pm
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Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:56 am
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Location: Coastal Bend, Tx.
Quote:
Here’s another, I’m being picky here, humidity matter to consider. Let’s say you have your nice guitar in a case where you’ve added your choice of sponge or desiccant and you have 50° humidity more or less in that storage. Now, just as your guitar gets to climatize itself from a car in the trunk of your car to a warm play area or vice versa, your guitar will to some minor extent, most times, have to do the same thing just taking it out in your home. Would it not?

I think for electrics, mostly sealed solid body guitars, would require several weeks in extreme %HM shifts to make a significant impact on the guitar. So take out to a practice/gig and then return to controlled HM probably not a big impact. Although, temperature shifts may have a bigger initial impact on the process.
Acoustics on the other hand have about 50% unsealed wood and primarily set necks/glued joints&bracing. That is a huge difference in the absorption/desorption potential. The movement to a less humid environment would require more time in that condition to have an effect than would moving to a more humid environment. Of course the type of wood would play a big part in the process, the more open grain the faster the process- to a point.
I would rank the potential to effect significant change in this order for absorption/desorption,
Temperature
Time
Humidity
Air flow


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Post subject: Re: (Whole) Home Humidification and related For Guitar(s) .
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:16 pm
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sfceric64 wrote:
Quote:
Here’s another, I’m being picky here, humidity matter to consider. Let’s say you have your
I would rank the potential to effect significant change in this order for absorption/desorption,
Temperature
Time
Humidity
Air flow
Pretty feasible to me.

I think material, as you alluded to with wood, comes first. I think the neck, fret board, frets, and possibly the bridge are generally a weak point. Bodies vary. Examples: National metal bodies (German silver, brass, steel), a Fender 1961 Acrylic Strat, and others with or without wood. Take an all carbon guitar such as a Rainsong Parlor or McPherson Kevin Michael. Those are not or less susceptible to temperature and humidity. But, that’s apples to oranges. Or is it? :wink:
FSB

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