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Post subject: Vintage Fender Rhodes Tones
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:15 pm
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I'm getting ready to start recording and programming some stuff. I'm a huge fan of Fender Rhodes sounds and am going to be working in software using software keyboards and Amplitube. I was wondering which amp simulator to use in Amplitube for a vintage type of sound.

C/S,
Rev J


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Post subject: Re: Vintage Fender Rhodes Tones
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:12 pm
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I’m not sure which direction you want to take; but, this may get you started.

First, I would go with a clean amp, with attention paid to the cabinet choices. I wouldn’t worry about the cabs though, as a variety of manufactured and custom cabs (along with arrays) will have been used. Also, as you will see by the link, one cab would often be used with a possibility of another being added later. Obviously, the result would be good but different with either. That’s if cabs are to used at all, since it may just require a combo with internal speakers.

Second, I would depend on your keyboard software to fatten and tweak the sound. This would give you the basis on deciding how and where you want to go.

It’s a bit of trial and error. You know the chicken and egg story. It’s not unlike the organ/Leslie.

You could then decide how to set the amp accordingly (before and/or after). Miking the software cabs may come into play.

Here’s one vintage thought:

http://www.fenderrhodes.com/pianos/amp.html

That said, it makes perfect sense to consider a Fender amp as being related; although, others of the era may be considered, but why, and PAs were used at times so that too would be a subtle approach?

Hope this helps, Rev’.

FSB

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Post subject: Re: Vintage Fender Rhodes Tones
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:16 pm
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IIRC the Fender-Rhodes 88 featured a 100-watt transistorized amp driving a quartet of 12-inch CTS speakers. It was a relatively clean, full-frequency system with little to no audible distortion. It's doubtful you'll find the exact parameters in Amplitude but you might try the tones for a silverface Twin Reverb or a Dual Showman Reverb. That should put you in the ballpark.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Vintage Fender Rhodes Tones
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:54 pm
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Post subject: Re: Vintage Fender Rhodes Tones
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:35 pm
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
I’m not sure which direction you want to take; but, this may get you started.

First, I would go with a clean amp, with attention paid to the cabinet choices. I wouldn’t worry about the cabs though, as a variety of manufactured and custom cabs (along with arrays) will have been used. Also, as you will see by the link, one cab would often be used with a possibility of another being added later. Obviously, the result would be good but different with either. That’s if cabs are to used at all, since it may just require a combo with internal speakers.

Second, I would depend on your keyboard software to fatten and tweak the sound. This would give you the basis on deciding how and where you want to go.

It’s a bit of trial and error. You know the chicken and egg story. It’s not unlike the organ/Leslie.

You could then decide how to set the amp accordingly (before and/or after). Miking the software cabs may come into play.

Here’s one vintage thought:

http://www.fenderrhodes.com/pianos/amp.html

That said, it makes perfect sense to consider a Fender amp as being related; although, others of the era may be considered, but why, and PAs were used at times so that too would be a subtle approach?

Hope this helps, Rev’.

FSB


Thanks! This what I was looking for. I realize that "Vintage" is a really vague term since a Ray Charles type of Rhodes tone is different from a Chuck Levell/Johnny Neel type of Rhodes tone which is different from a Chick Corea type of Rhodes tone. I read an article a few years ago about recording a Rhodes in the studio and the 3 different methods they recommended were:

1) Run a direct line.

2) Mic the speaker that came with the Rhodes.

3) Run through an amp (at the time I couldn't remember the recommended amp).

I know that I'm getting a little ahead of myself. But my thoughts about doing it in the digital realm is to set up a signal chain in Amplitube and run it through the effects send and return on the Rhodes Channel and mix it to taste.

C/S,
Rev J


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Post subject: Re: Vintage Fender Rhodes Tones
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:08 pm
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Glad we could help, Rev’. Good luck with the recordings.

That’s a great promotional clip, Mike. Thanks, for the addition.

FSB

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Post subject: Re: Vintage Fender Rhodes Tones
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:42 pm
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Thank's. It helps from a writing/production perspective there are certain instruments and sounds that I love like congas, Rhodes, mallets (vibes, marimba etc). I've been shopping lately for what I call "doodad percussion" like shakers, tambourines etc that I can record in my apartment without annoying my neighbors.

C/S,
Rev J


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Post subject: Re: Vintage Fender Rhodes Tones
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:21 pm
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I hear you. That’s one of the beautiful things about having hands on or close proximity to the real equipment. Case in point. We had a full size marimba that hung around a studio along with other respected instruments. When you hear such a thing up close overtime you’ll have it imprinted in your brain.

Same with an associated sound from a specific guitar of choice. A vintage Strat sound could come from any number of Stratocasters. Your preferential interest may be different than mine. I know what a ‘62 Strat through a ‘65 Bandmaster sounds like so, perhaps, that might be my vintage. For others it may be a totally different guitar, pup choice, tone control, and amp. I know what vintage Zildjians sound like and they’re not all the same based on build, origin, and type. For others it may be Sabian or, perhaps, more modern Zildjians. Snares are tuned to key or not. I was taught to play Tympanis and they are by key. I brought back a washboard from the coast. It’s old and vintage for some, but not necessarily the better instrumental washboard. I love my ‘66 chrome English cowbell, but others will work or fail and so on and so on, The Rhodes, by itself, was a good solid example in it’s time; other keyboards have their own strength and history . . . so there is a vintage too.

Another way to get from here to there is with a professional producer or engineer who, with their experience and familiarity, can lend their ears and know how. These individuals are rock stars in their own right. There are some great control room creators who are lousy musicians, and great musicians who are lousy producers/engineers. At times you’ll get the whole package. A happy medium is a good goal to reach. YMMV

A bit of caution though. Popularity amongst musicians/producers is different than popularity amongst an audience. When a tone is popular amongst musicians/producers and the audience it’s a bonus. A musician may prefer a sound while the audience may not or, maybe, they don’t pay it much attention. Audiences and musicians are fickle and where some will migrate to new instruments and sound, others will hang on to yesterday. Still others will mix and match. Perhaps, it’s good to have an audience that is flexible. :P
I still believe in making it your own when you can. Alternatives are more acceptable today than ever. That wasn’t always the case. It’s one way to get noticed unless it’s preferential to follow the crowd just for self enjoyment or doing cover work which has a place too. As for recording, just remember that many many hits came from a more simplistic approach. A lot of that instrumention and recording was experimental and new at the time without a comparison to follow. Others were same old same old. They weren’t all Sergeant Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band. It’s not what’s on the outside, it’s what’s in the inside. :wink:
“Break a leg.”
FSB

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Post subject: Re: Vintage Fender Rhodes Tones
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:27 pm
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Fortunately I have a friend who's an engineer who worked with George Clinton, Jello Biafra, Del the FUnky Homosapien etc who lives around the corner from my girlfriend who I can probably get to critique my stuff for beer. I also have a friend who plays Vibraphone and Mallet Kat who I'm pretty sure will let me pick his brain in terms of how to write for mallets.

C/S,
Rev J


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Post subject: Re: Vintage Fender Rhodes Tones
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:51 pm
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Rev J wrote:
Fortunately I have a friend who's an engineer who worked with George Clinton, Jello Biafra, Del the FUnky Homosapien etc who lives around the corner from my girlfriend who I can probably get to critique my stuff for beer. I also have a friend who plays Vibraphone and Mallet Kat who I'm pretty sure will let me pick his brain in terms of how to write for mallets.

C/S,
Rev J
That’s excellent, Rev’. Never one to say anyone can’t produce or engineer (okay, some can’t), and no suggestion of that here. It’s tough to get honest and/or knowledgeable critique from friends or band mates at times. The more bullets in your holster the better the chances of getting that shot. Sounds like you’ve got that target set up in a great environment and that’s awesome. You’ve got a good handle on it already, so it won’t take much to be the gunslinger. :wink:
Still listening to that MF Doom lecture. Pretty interesting, thanks.

FSB

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Post subject: Re: Vintage Fender Rhodes Tones
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:28 pm
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Exactly. I went to school for audio production years ago and interned in a recording studio. Unfortunately I spent more time working the desk and reading books on music business than in the studio.

A few years ago I watched a TED talk called "Pop an Ollie and Innovate" by professional skateboarder Rodney Mullen:



Even if you aren't into skateboarding it's worth a look. He is probably one of the most innovative skateboarders of all time. The concepts that he talks about can be applied to almost any discipline.

For me 2 of the big takeaways were:

1) "There is an intrinsic value to creating something just for the sake of creating it."

2) Sometimes people just need to be shown that something can be done.

I'm glad you're digging on the MF DOOM lecture.

I just ordered these the other day:

https://www.featuresneakerboutique.com/ ... ilable-now

I'm kind of a sock connoisseur and Stance socks are the most comfortable, stylish socks that I've ever worn. I already own more than 30 pairs of them.

C/S,
Rev J


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