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Post subject: Renovating a 1979 Strat, some questions
Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:45 am
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Hi Strat lovers,

Sorry, for using far too many words (English is not my native tongue), but I hope that someone, sharing the same passion for this epic guitar of Mr. Leo Fender, will manage to stay awake and still has energy left to provide something of a response after reading all this.

Background:
Age 19 in 1980 (yes, I am an old fart, but hey, I am still rockin), I bought a 2nd hand Fender Stratocaster. I deeply fell in love with it and still am today. That is why I decided to give the old gall some long overdue TLC. In the research towards that, I found much detail on the internet I never knew or even considered, but consequently also ran into many unanswered questions. Hence this post, hoping the community can enlighten me and thus help me restore her to her former glory or maybe even beyond.

She probably dates back to 1979 based on serial nrs (headstock S937683 and 0902£3392 on heel of neck in green ink), date on pu's 1978, 3 bolt micro tilt adjustment neck, original case, black tolex with maroon interior, large headstock, weight is about 5.5 kg, with black pickguards, knobs and PU covers).

Seems the first owner, only made some minor modifications to her. The bridge PU was replaced by a Dimarzio, the F tuners were replaced by Schallers. I did get the original F tuners from 1st owner, but not the original bridge PU. He did shield the body cavity with copper foil (against 50hz hum) and grounded all parts, but for some reason only partly shielded the pick guard (I completely covered it with copper foil which made a huge difference).

This lady had a rough life as due to water damage her body paint in places has crackled showing bare wood. Even some small chips have broken off. Would have been nice if that contributed to an aged look, but it does not, it is just downright ugly.

I am guilty of an immortal sin, as some 20 to 25 years ago, due to fretware, I had the “original” neck replaced by an anonymous type Strat neck without any decal. This based on advice from a local luthier as this was better/less expensive than refretting. Foolishly I agreed, but kept the original neck. With the new neck, also the 3 bolt was replaced by a 4 bolt. However, due to my inquiries, I am starting to doubt if that neck was the original neck in the first place. The specs of that neck do not meet with what they should be according to the data I found (see later on). But this also can be contributed to me lacking the proper tools (or skills) to measure.

Goal:
My goal is to improve the Strat, by replacing parts with better ones, but also give it a more aged look and otherwise keep it as original as doable. Keeping in mind that I predominantly play (that is if you can call my attempts playing lol) classic rock and blues. Therefore, I consider next modifications:

Electronics:
Already replaced the PU's with Lindy Frailin Hot ST set (incl base plate for bridge PU) that imo sound a lot better then the original PU's. Also replaced the pots and 5 way switch with Emerson Custom Blender 5-way Strat kit. Again imo huge improvement. I replaced all black plastic parts (pick guard, pots, switch, PU covers, trem tip) by aged parchment ones, in order to give it a more aged look.

Neck:
Currently it has the replacement neck: 1 piece maple, 4 bolts, C type, Scale 628mm/24.72'', Width at nut (42mm/1.63''), at last fret (55.5mm/2.18''), Thickness at 1st fret (20.32mm/0.80''), at 12th fret (22.1mm/0/87''), radius 279.4mm/11''. It has 22 frets width (2.9mm/0.11'') height (1.1mm/0.04''); making it 6130 or 6100, jumbo or med jumbo or something close to that. As none of these measurements seem right, either I got a Monday morning neck or this is due to inadequete measuring on my behalf.

But wait, it gets even stranger, the measurements of my old neck are even more bizarre: 1 piece maple, 3 bolt micro tilt adjustment neck, U or SRV type, Scale 628mm/24.72'', Width at nut (40.8mm/1.60''), at last fret (55.5mm/2.18''), Thickness at 1st fret (23.1mm/0.90''), at 12th fret (24.6mm/0/96''), radius 241mm/9½''. It has 21 frets width (3.1mm/0.12'') height (1.1mm/0.04''); making it 6110 or 6120 ei large or jumbo.

My understanding is that Fender only offered 7¼'' (U shaped) radius fingerboards until well into 1980 with small vintage frets. As mine seems 9½'' and has jumbo frets it probably is not the original neck. Either that, or the guitar itself is not an 1979 but a later year? But then how about the other compelling indications it has to be an 1979?

Anyway, I either need to refret the old neck, or keep using the current one and put a decal on it. Albeit current neck plays and sounds great I am inclined to put the old one back. It looks better, it is a birdeye and looks aged, it is more yellowish and probably also adds more to the overall sound (old wood is said to sound better), playability feel and value. Only consideration would be its smaller radius.

Remaining question then is, what type of frets to put on? NB they need to be pushed out (and in) sideways rather then pulled (and pushed) as that was the fashion used by Fender until 1982.

Also, do I need to restore it to its original 3 bolt micro tilt adjustment neck? Or keep the 4 bolt?

If I were to do the refretting as well as levelling, crowning, bevelling and polishing, myself (I know it is a hard job, but I want to learn and have time on my hands) what is best approach? After fret removal, I was wondering if I can sand down the lacquer of the fretboard/neck ever so lightly and give it a new layer after refretting is done. This would seal off the new frets again and also add to aged look of neck and fretboard. I have seen people (luthiers) glue the frets in or add a little glue (thinned) afterwards to fill up any remaing invisible cavities between frets and wood. But no one seems to re-lacquer a fretboard (basically entire neck), where it is my understanding that this is often done after a refret job on a maple fingerboard? Oddly, my search only has shown very limited info on that to date?

Tremolo:
The tremolo received damage (it was “bend out of shape”, but does not make me sound more like Blackmore unfortunately) by my ex slamming it back in its case, while tremolo was still mountend, and forcing it to close... see why it is my ex.

I found that a lot of Strat players replace the old tremolo system by a Callaham Vintage S Model Strat Bridge Assembly. However, most, if not all demo's on youtube seem to suggest that the gain in sound and sustain is minimal. So question is, is it worth it?

I do want to replace the saddles (and all other metal ware) for aged ones anyway, so I am inclined to go for the upgrade as it will also fix the damage. Would welcome your experience with Callaham.

Nut:
Nut on current neck probably is graphtec tusq (not sure that was around 20-25 years back). The one from my old neck feels like plastic which is another oddity as my understanding was that until 1980 all Fender necks came with bone nuts? As of 2011 ALL Strats are fitted with a nut made from synthetic bone by Fender. So what would be best, graphtec tusq, bone or maybe even brass (Yngwie seems to use)?

Paint:
Currently the body is white (I guess color code 505) but the paint is damaged and discolored in an ugly way. I assume the current paint is (poly)urethane, not sure. My goal is to give it a more aged look and another color, blackish. Much like on the one John Mayor is using (I cannot play like him, not even close, but at least I will have a guitar that images someones that can lol) but leave a little more paint on. The idea is to sand down the lacquer of the body and then give it a few layers of black. Assuming I do not need to get all existing paint off? Sand it down again in places to indicate wear and tear and give it that aged, worn down look and add a few layers of protective cellulose lacquer to keep it that way. Given I do not know what type of paint is on it at the moment, I am not sure what the best way is to sand it (or even use a blow torch) nor what type of black paint can be used. I do want to use nitrocellulose lacquer for finish, for its aging quality.

Tuners:
Currently it has Schaller machines on it. They are fine, never failed me, but they do not look aged at all so I am considering to replacing them with (Gotoh) SD91 MG Klusons 6 in line or staggered (not sure what the diff is), preferably aged. I do have some 2x3 Klusons on my LPR8 IT Vos. Those are great, but I am not sure if the 6 in line are the same as the 2x3 in terms of quality and looks?

Other questions:
I am not sure what the body is made of, ash or alder. My guess it is alder as it is kinda heavy with 5.5 kg.

I am confused about what original neck should have been on it, assuming my old one is not original?

Thanks in advance
Eric


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Post subject: Re: Renovating a 1979 Strat, some questions
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:47 am
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Welcome to the Forums, Eric. Sometimes it takes a while for posts from new members to show up. Don't despair, I bet someone will see your post soon and reply. :)

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Post subject: Re: Renovating a 1979 Strat, some questions
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:16 pm
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The guitar is nowhere near original, so any renovations, upgrades, mods etc. will not do more damage. You are in the ideal situation; a carte blanche to do what ever you want to.
From the forum(s), you get all sorts of right answers - they're all right since personalizing a guitar is highly… well… personal.. :wink:

As far as "what is it" and "what was it originally" goes, no amount of words can do what pics can. High resolution, all over and details - as many as you can.


BTW, this might belong better to the Stratocaster section


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Post subject: Re: Renovating a 1979 Strat, some questions
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:41 pm
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StNicolaas wrote:
... I am guilty of a mortal sin ...

There was a lot of modding going on back then especially to Strats, so don't worry about it ... :)

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Post subject: Re: Renovating a 1979 Strat, some questions
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:40 pm
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Welcome to the Forums Eric. A 1979 Stratocaster, congratulations. You are in the right Forums. We love photos, videos and questions. 8)

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Post subject: Re: Renovating a 1979 Strat, some questions
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:35 am
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In addition to my Topic "Renovating a 1979 Strat".

A big thank you to Roger Jackson (aka "Arjay") for elaborate and helpfull response, much appreciated :D

I need to correct an error. The 5.5 kg is wrong, its "only" 4.3 kg (sorry for goofing). Some responses suggest my neck scale measurements must be off. I calculated the scale by measuring from nut to the middle of 12th fret and multiple by 2. I would love to added some pic's, if I can figure out how to do that.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.


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Post subject: Re: Renovating a 1979 Strat, some questions
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:28 am
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A weight of 4.3 kg is significantly lighter -- that translates to 9.46 lbs, a helluva lot more manageable. As for the body's composition (ash or alder), you'll know for certain once you strip the existing finish off. Ash is a heavily-grained timber while alder is visible less dramatic in character. Good luck with your endeavors.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Renovating a 1979 Strat, some questions
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:44 am
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Welcome, Eric.

Looks to be a fun and rewarding experience. I don’t know if this is any help, but it does show the original neck in question, and gives a few tips on removal and install of the frets.

http://www.chubbuckguitars.com/blog/201 ... k-to-stock

Good luck on your project.

FSB

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Post subject: Re: Renovating a 1979 Strat, some questions
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:50 pm
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Hi Eric, welcome to the forum.

To post a photo on this forum your image (photo), needs to be accessible on the internet at a location that is known to you for example this location of one of my photos:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DL4090GX4AYWv8b.jpg

It's probably a good idea to have this forum and your new message open in one browser window and locate your image in another browser window or tab.

When you find your image copy the location from the address line in your browser (mark the text and select it for copying).

In your tab or window where your new forum message is being composed click on the "Img" box above the message and in the message body you will see two [Img] tags, paste your image location/URL between those two tags.

When you Preview or Submit your new message your image should appear.

I'll post an image below, you could click on the quote button in this message and view the message code to see what it should look like when you are posting an image:

Image

Good luck.

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Post subject: Re: Renovating a 1979 Strat, some questions
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:59 am
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Thanks for tips Steve, following up, add some pic's using url as img does not seem to work with MSonedrive.

Strat as it is atm after replacing electronics and all new white covers (apart from backplate) and with current neck. Still need to age all metals, replace trem with Callaham, tuners with Gotoh Kluson, spray it black and age it, then reinstal old neck after refret with or without 3 bolt.
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlAtSxQIIvZ-dC2XGBq2SHAFO3s

Measuring scale of current neck (in cm),
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlAtSxQIIvZ-dXrd3ydjFYGC8Pw

as well as old one.
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlAtSxQIIvZ-dl0bGlHOajs5-OA

Old neck and head stock in more detail (is it worth reinstalling?)
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlAtSxQIIvZ-d7uL5QxnBevnkk8


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Post subject: Re: Renovating a 1979 Strat, some questions
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:04 am
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You measured scale by "nut to middle of 12th fret x 2". That's the correct method, but...

All 70's Strat necks are 25 1/2" scale. Aftermarket conversion necks with Gibson's 24 3/4" scale weren't introduced until the '90s.

"Middle of the fret" is often misunderstood. Some people think it means that place on the fretboard between the 11th and 12th frets (where the two inlay dots are). Which would give something like 24 3/4.

"Middle of fret" means the centerline of the metal fret itself.

Double check by measuring from the nut to the high E saddle. The thin high E string requires almost no intonation adjustment so it's very very close to the scale length.


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Post subject: Re: Renovating a 1979 Strat, some questions
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:08 pm
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@strayedstrater, thanks for reply. I checked and indeed had only measured in between, rather then in middle of 12th fret. So 25 1/2'' confirmed. I will get some proper tools (incl measuring ones), that I will need for refretting anyway.

Next new (or rather vintage) tuners. Would Klusons SD91 fit in std Fender 10 mm pegholes or would I need some bushings?


Last edited by StNicolaas on Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Renovating a 1979 Strat, some questions
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:24 pm
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StNicolaas wrote:
@strayedstrater, thanks for reply. I checked and indeed had only measured in between, rather then in middle of 12th fret. So 25 1/2'' confirmed.

And here's an interesting item...
If you replace the 1st fret with a nut and move the marker dots up by one fret, the Strat neck and body become a 24" scale, which is the same as the Brian May model Guild BM series.

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