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Post subject: Time Signatures
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:37 pm
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Something that looks like it should be so simple "Time Signatures" is so confusing to me. Watching lessons on You-tube further confuses me. The top number is easy, number of beats per measure, but the bottom one is where it gets confusing.

To top it off you in the UK have different names for the notes.

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Post subject: Re: Time Signatures
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:45 pm
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oneal lane wrote:
To top it off you in the UK have different names for the notes.
That goldurn metric will get ya every time. :lol:
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Post subject: Re: Time Signatures
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:58 pm
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Look at it this way:

Top #: how many beats are in the measure?

Bottom #: what value does each beat have?

So if it says 4/4, there are 4 beats in the measure and each of those beats is as long as one quarter note (or rest).
If it says 3/4, each beat is still as long as a quarter note or rest, but there are only 3 beats in the measure.

Ya dig?

So when the bottom number changes:

3/8 would still be 3 beats per measure, but now each beat is an 8th note or rest long.

A little side note about learning time signatures: if you set a metronome to 60 beats per minute, each beat is one second long. That’s a very comfortable relatable tempo to use. Just think about the clock.


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Post subject: Re: Time Signatures
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:28 pm
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That’s a great explanation ghost_of_strings. Thanks, for the post.

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Post subject: Re: Time Signatures
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:04 pm
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Yup.

The top number indicates how many notes you count per bar.
The bottom number indicates what type of notes you count.

There have been oddities in some modern music and also some forms of music from other parts of the world.
Music that doesn't conform to our rigid thinking about cadence.

The rock band Rush has been known to use some very peculiar time signatures.
Some blues shuffles are written in 6/8 and even 12/8 time.
Pink Floyd's Money was written in 7/4.

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Post subject: Re: Time Signatures
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:44 pm
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And for a familiar exercise, without being too complex:

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Time signature changes twice then returns to 4/4 for the verse
First measure 2/4, two beats, there's an 8th rest, followed by three 8th notes.
Two measures in 4/4
Next measure is 5/4... it's basically a 4/4 measure, but with the extra 1/4 note tagged onto the end.

More complex? Look up some Rush

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Post subject: Re: Time Signatures
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:50 pm
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I found it easier to count in groups of three, when doing odd time signatures. For example: 5/4, I'll think by going 1-2-3 1-2, or boom boom bap boom bap. Whatever works in your head, I guess, then I plan my bass parts accordingly. I don't know why the 3 count works better for me, then doing four then one, but it just does.

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Post subject: Re: Time Signatures
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:35 am
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ok, so lets muddy the water, explain cut time.

8)

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Post subject: Re: Time Signatures
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:49 am
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Cut Time: also known as 2/2 time, is two half-note beats per measure.

This thread is hitting home for me. I'm learning some songs for Church this week and it seems like every song I have to work on is in either 6/8 or 9/8 time. Tricky! :D


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Post subject: Re: Time Signatures
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:16 am
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Thanks to all of you posting explanations. Right now I am still a little to confused to even pose a proper question.

4/4, 2/4, 3/4 are not too hard to understand, but some of the others are more complex mixing of notes and numbers etc.

And then there is the question of just how long a "beat" should last. Is there a defined unit of time a beat should last. Is it more-or-less a "second" in time. How is one to know? Which opens the other door of determining how fast a song is played. Is "time signature" the determining factor or verbal clues like "legato" etc.

Thanks all

OL

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Post subject: Re: Time Signatures
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:18 pm
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The 'beat' is a single rhythmic pulse. Think of a single click of a metronome or a single tap of your foot. Time signatures won't tell you exactly how fast or slow the the beat should be, but a typical piece of sheet music will usually give you some clues as to the song's tempo (either by stating the exact number of beats-per-minute or by using more traditional (and somewhat more vague) tempo descriptions such as andante (moderately slow), allegro (fast), etc.).

Again, the top number of a time signature is the number of beats in a single measure of sheet music ("measure" meaning the section in-between two vertical lines on a piece of sheet music). The bottom number is the note value of a single beat.

So, in a song with a 6/8 time signature: there are six beats-per-measure, and the length of a beat is a single eighth note. One measure of a song in 6/8 time could include 6 eighth notes, three quarter notes, or any combination of notes and/or rests that adds up to 6 eighth notes.

I think this is one of those things that sounds a little confusing when it's written out, but isn't as hard to understand when you see it in action. It might be worth doing a Youtube search of lessons describing time signatures. Good luck!


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Post subject: Re: Time Signatures
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:09 pm
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oneal lane wrote:
4/4, 2/4, 3/4 are not too hard to understand, but some of the others are more complex mixing of notes and numbers etc

The vast majority of Western music uses one of the time signatures you listed above. Maybe add 6/8 to that list.

Give yourself a break on this one. Complex time signatures are ... complex.

Sometimes it helps to have a reference recording so you know how the piece is "supposed" to sound. For example, you could get your hands on the score from "Westside Story" along with the original Broadway cast recordings.


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Post subject: Re: Time Signatures
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:01 pm
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oneal lane wrote:
And then there is the question of just how long a "beat" should last. Is there a defined unit of time a beat should last. Is it more-or-less a "second" in time. How is one to know? Which opens the other door of determining how fast a song is played. Is "time signature" the determining factor or verbal clues like "legato" etc.

Modern sheet music will typically provide the value in beats per minute, which is what you would program into the metronome.
Older pieces may only be defined in the Latin terms, which are relative, and there is some amount of discretion for the conductor (or musician if a solo piece)

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