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Post subject: Pau ferro vs rosewood
Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:14 am
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I hear a lot of complaints that pau ferro doesn't look as nice as rosewood because it's not as dark. It's subjective, but it seems a lot of people feel that way. It's a shame because in theory pau ferro is a better fingerboard wood, especially for a fretless. Pau ferro is harder and smoother. But there is a solution... ROAST IT! It makes it darker and pre shrinks it!

I saw someone do it in another forum. I'll like it below.

https://guitarscanada.com/index.php?thr ... rds.62123/

What are your thoughts on pau ferro?


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Post subject: Re: Pau ferro vs rosewood
Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:31 am
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I like it. I've just bought a fiesta red 60s classic Jaguar with a PF board, and it's really comfortable to play. I'm not so bothered about the slightly lighter board either.


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Post subject: Re: Pau ferro vs rosewood
Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:44 am
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as long as it doesn't destroy the integrity of the wood, it's all good. I think the example looks beautiful and seriously doubt I'd look at this and wish is was a different wood:

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Post subject: Re: Pau ferro vs rosewood
Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:25 am
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I like both but prefer maple over both.

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Post subject: Re: Pau ferro vs rosewood
Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:05 pm
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I have no problem with the looks of it.

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Post subject: Re: Pau ferro vs rosewood
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:35 am
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One of my favourite things is to stain wood, although I do less these days. I’m of the generation where mahogany (the real McCoy) was prevalent everywhere. In school workshops. You’d find it from crib boards to guitars, ashamedly contributing to the restrictions today, along with my present custom kitchen cupboards, which somebody had mistakenly varathaned and I had to reproduce (after twenty stain samples sealed, unsealed, coats, rubs, sanding and more) with a lesser Asian look alike to make matching different wood additions for a new counter and a dishwasher.

The first Strat I played had Braziian rosewood. My Grannie had collected exquisite Chinese dining room furniture with intricate inlays and carving of Asian rosewood and cherry. I’ve seen $100 Strat copies with rosewood (real or not). I get the whole save the forests and manage the wood from having lived by and seen the foreign run abusive clear cutting of Carmanah on Vancouver Island. For those who don’t get the picture, the practice has to be seen to be understood.

Pau Ferro is a fine wood to be sure, and we are lucky to have this for a substitute. That said, there are substutes, that on their own do a fine job. Yet, side by side, differences with and without finishes can, well, be different . . . some good, some bad. Some preferential, some not.

My thought is that the more exotic the wood the less likely a suitable reproduction. A great substitute may look better or worse, but another factor comes into play. A preferred nice piece of wood may prove difficult to work with whether shaping, staining, durability, tone, or other consideration. The remaining choice might be a compromise and very often is. Sometimes, however, you get lucky whether reproduced or different in an acceptable or good way.

http://www.wood-database.com/pau-ferro/

http://www.wood-database.com/brazilian-rosewood/

A sample of wood tone:


FSB

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Post subject: Re: Pau ferro vs rosewood
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:48 am
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The fretboard on my Ibanez Talman TMB-30 bass is made from Jatoba, which to me, and factoring in it's a short scale bass, sounds pretty good. Other than that, I don't know who else is using that for fretboards, but apparently used in backs and sides of acoustic guitars. Here's a video of someone talking about it: From watching that, obviously it's been stained to look like rosewood on my bass.

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Post subject: Re: Pau ferro vs rosewood
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:46 pm
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
One of my favourite things is to stain wood,

One of my upcoming projects is a "Solo" spalted maple Les Paul.
I'll be running a red stain for the back, sides, and neck, with amber for the top and headstock.
The fretboard is obviously one of the lighter woods... most likely PF, I was considering staining it black or dark brown.
Using a water/alcohol-based dye (Keda), do you think this is going to stain the binding and inlays?

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Post subject: Re: Pau ferro vs rosewood
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:25 pm
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CB91710 wrote:
Fender Strat Brat wrote:
One of my favourite things is to stain wood,

One of my upcoming projects is a "Solo" spalted maple Les Paul.
I'll be running a red stain for the back, sides, and neck, with amber for the top and headstock.
The fretboard is obviously one of the lighter woods... most likely PF, I was considering staining it black or dark brown.
Using a water/alcohol-based dye (Keda), do you think this is going to stain the binding and inlays?

Heya, Rich.

I honestly can’t say for sure, but I do know that there is always a chance of seepage that could, I suppose, not only get on top, but possibly, although unlikely, creep in behind depending on the quality of the glue job or type of binder.

If you do mask, it goes without saying, don’t cheapen out on the masking tape because even brand name stuff can be iffy as I suspect old stock or counterfeit tape is out there and there really is no way of beating those odds, unless you already have tape on hand that you trust. You can usually ask an automotive parts/body parts supply store for suggestions if need be. They should be a good resource should that be necessary. Covering fret markings is obviously a challenge, but not impossible, of course. Perhaps, a small appropriate dowel (a cut paint brush shaft for example) might work holding it vertically over the dot(s) wiping or scraping excess off with the least abrasion (like a toothpick). I’m sure you will discover or already know what works best for this.

To answer your question related to mask or don’t mask, I found this:



Two camps exist: seal the wood for more grain prior to stain or not. Again, trade offs are colour and sheen. Generally speaking, softwoods seal, hardwoods without or with a seal to raise grain or for porous wood.

Good luck with the project. Keep us posted when you get to it, Rich.

FSB

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Post subject: Re: Pau ferro vs rosewood
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:37 pm
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Was definitely not going to seal prior to stain. The idea with the black is to give it an almost Ebony look. Since I'm going with the amber tint on the spalted maple, I'm going blacked-out on all of the hardware, so an ebony-like fretboard would work well with that.

Debating on the truss rod cover.. I have both a black metal cover, and a Rosewood cover that is similar to the Taylor piece. I think the wood cover will work nicely with the maple veneer.

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Post subject: Re: Pau ferro vs rosewood
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:14 pm
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That looks to soon be a mean playin’ machine. I think either cover would work well, Rich. :D
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Post subject: Re: Pau ferro vs rosewood
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:13 pm
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PaulLF wrote:
The fretboard on my Ibanez Talman TMB-30 bass is made from Jatoba, which to me, and factoring in it's a short scale bass, sounds pretty good. Other than that, I don't know who else is using that for fretboards, but apparently used in backs and sides of acoustic guitars. Here's a video of someone talking about it: From watching that, obviously it's been stained to look like rosewood on my bass.
That looks to be nice wood, Paul.

FYI I found another Jatoba finger board here, but it appears some are calling it rosewood or, perhaps, it comes in two versions. Nevertheless, this shows Jatoba fretboards are out there (albeit limited for now . . . but, maybe incorrectly advertised as rosewood for marketing).



FSB

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Post subject: Re: Pau ferro vs rosewood
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:29 pm
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I've always thought that Ric' boards looked too light and too polished to be Rosewood. Did they use a different variety of Rosewood, or something else entirely?

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Post subject: Re: Pau ferro vs rosewood
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:55 pm
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I did some research and I believe I found an answer to the mystery. The consensus is that Ric and Warmouth use Bubinga.

Names like mahogany and rosewood are borrowed and tossed around like they are one in the same of their type. They are not, but look similar after stain, sometimes without consideration to things like tone (both audible and natural colour), pores, grain, hardness, and workability to be brief.

Here’s where it gets cloudy as others believe the Ric’s chosen variety to be something else considering said characteristics. Bubinga, as another reported elsewhere, is said to be more like a super maple, contributes to a Ric tone that has clarity with treble but not too bright, no bumped midrange, not as harsh as pau ferro, and more defined bass than Indian rosewood might have. It is popular for bass guitars.

That said. Bubinga (central Africa) aka African rosewood has slow growth, and it is common for the wood (such as two or more fretboards) to have different grain and a lesser or deeper reddish colour from aging. I found similar characteristics with some Philipino mahogany of the same variety, and even the supplier had difficulty defining what it was. I had a difficulty matching it naturally and with stain. Swamp wood makes things even more adventurous.

Add some stain and there you have it. Some call it rosewood . . . I call it Bubinga. Could be the reason why, at least not yet, having used South American preferred exotic wood, I declined the rosewood fretboard on my guitars (for now). Not that it’s bad, and not that I might not buy something in the future were it desired, but it definitely is not the same as the original with characteristics and stain. Many stains have also changed over time. Still pretty nice. IMHO. YMMV.

FSB

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Post subject: Re: Pau ferro vs rosewood
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:14 pm
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
PaulLF wrote:
The fretboard on my Ibanez Talman TMB-30 bass is made from Jatoba, which to me, and factoring in it's a short scale bass, sounds pretty good. Other than that, I don't know who else is using that for fretboards, but apparently used in backs and sides of acoustic guitars. Here's a video of someone talking about it: From watching that, obviously it's been stained to look like rosewood on my bass.
That looks to be nice wood, Paul.

FYI I found another Jatoba finger board here, but it appears some are calling it rosewood or, perhaps, it comes in two versions. Nevertheless, this shows Jatoba fretboards are out there (albeit limited for now . . . but, maybe incorrectly advertised as rosewood for marketing).



FSB


I'm wondering if it shrinks like rosewood can, when it's cold and dry weather, like the winter around here, if you're not climate controlled. I guess I'll find out, then see if I'll have to do any fret end filing. I have to say, the frets on the Ibanez are really well done, and it's a really nice neck.

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