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Do you think copyright laws need an overhaul?
No. Fine as they are. 25%  25%  [ 2 ]
Yes. Need to be stricter. 13%  13%  [ 1 ]
Yes. Need to be less strict and more limited. 25%  25%  [ 2 ]
Other 13%  13%  [ 1 ]
No opinion 25%  25%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 8
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Post subject: What’s Goin’ On?
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:47 am
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Poor Ed Sheeran (or is it rich Ed)? Any way you look at it the copyright police have slapped handcuffs on another artist.

Like any laws there are good and bad ones and copyright is no different. They certainly should have a time limit without renewal IMHO. Whether it’s recording companies dictating songs to an artist under contract with their intentions of taking full or unworthy partial ownership of a successful hit both now and forever, whether it’s making first claim to a traditional piece of historical music, taking a foreign song and translating it into another language or meticulously changing the arrangement with copyright, adding or deleting credit where it has been overlooked or deceivingly scribed, or a host of other questionable practices that have been under the management microscope for some time, it doesn’t look good.

Just like burger and donut joints have more invested in real estate rather than their trade, so do the music moguls with their copyright antics. There is merit in copyright to be sure, but creative fairness and artistic value takes a back seat at times. Sometimes, it seems as if the big guy with the brief case is about to make an offer you can’t refuse. :roll: It’s too bad the game in the beginning was not played well by the opposing players against the big recording and publishing companies. The game might have had a different outcome. Ahh! Fortunately. the game has changed. :lol: Unfortunately, the industry is playing overtime.

I’m betting the sampling police are crouched waiting for their time to pounce on EDM.

Anyhow, here’s Ed’s dilemma:

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/newsbeat-44653107

FSB

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Post subject: Re: What’s Goin’ On?
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:55 am
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"Let's Get It On" is mostly those same 4 chords over and over. Since when can you copyright a 4 chord progression? Yes first time I heard that song I started singing "Let's Get It On" over the recording. But Sheeran's melody is completely different. Thank goodness nobody copyrighted the 12 bar blues! Or I/VI/IV/V!


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Post subject: Re: What’s Goin’ On?
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:28 pm
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Pretty much my interpretation and thoughts too, ghost.

In TV we used to say, “There is nothing new”. With copyright the case for originality is nothing new. It’s the argument and support for the liberties taken that is getting old. :P
Very refined highly researched software is available to not only make lyrics and music, books and screenplays and such, easier, but also to set structure that is proven to be a successful hit based on data from overall examples. Not such an uncommon practice. It’s found in the automobile and aircraft industries and elsewhere. In fact I once heard that if a shuttle were built by a foreign power it would (by physics and other factors) be not unlike any other. True that patents exist, but they also expire as should copyrights. Look at all the Strats. :shock:
Let’s imagine someone making a song in India where amongst the songwriter and a billion people the song is new and perceived to be original (not having been heard or known before in that area). A possibility? Unlikely, but not impossible. Is that an infringement? Is it any more or less worthy of a copyright? The argument, “We did it first”. The defender, “Nice! Happy for ya. We did it first here. We don’t have the wherewithal for copyright, and maybe you heard it here first. Our song is going to play in space, and we’ll be the first to do it there”. The antagonist, “What’s that you say? We have rules. It’s our game”. The defender. “We prefer our game and you can have yours. Welcome to the real World Series. Never heard of you. No, really. I grew up in a jungle where we make our own music, and I don’t recall you visiting us, and who cares if a billion minus a few heard you on the radio, TV, or computer. We didn’t, and while we’re on the subject, that drum beat you used on your version dude sounds a lot like our man Running Tiger.“ :lol: The complainer, “Okay, loser. We’ll see what the World Trade Organization has to say about that! You’ll never get work on this planet again.” :cry:
“Fine! Pay Running Tiger his share you moron!”

Ah, sweet music. Gotta love it. 8)
FSB

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Post subject: Re: What’s Goin’ On?
Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:05 pm
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Very interesting. Thanks for the link FSB.

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Post subject: Re: What’s Goin’ On?
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:24 am
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You're welcome, SBLS.

As far as my take on copyright, I certainly believe that fair compensation is due. I just think it has gotten out of hand, never was fair (take for example abused groups and individuals that had to moonlight under a different name), today's kids that are willing to sell the farm to get their name out there, and innocent artists and producers who find difficulty in creating being strapped with truckloads of interpretive and legal ramifications that are poorly, by design, distributed. Just one man's opinion. :| YMMV

FSB

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Post subject: Re: What’s Goin’ On?
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:35 am
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Thanks for your votes, Lizards.

Sorry about the poll graphics gang. Is everybody finding the bars kinda wonky? I thought my making of the poll was at fault until I cross checked it with the other polls here. For me, none of the bars presently display correctly on either my Apple iPhone or my PC. :?:
Brad, can you advise or . . .? Thanks.

FSB

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Post subject: Re: What’s Goin’ On?
Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:53 pm
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
For me, none of the bars presently display correctly on either my Apple iPhone or my PC. :?:

Same here on desktop Firefox. Each bar is almost full page high. It's like the bars are vertically stacked, but the option with "2" votes is twice as wide well as being twice as tall.
Every poll is like that.

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Post subject: Re: What’s Goin’ On?
Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:46 pm
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Thanks, for chiming in to verify that, Rich.

FSB

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Post subject: Re: What’s Goin’ On?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:23 am
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I chose fine as they are. The internet has changed the music industry but it's great for intellectual property lawyers now that it's stunningly easy to violate copyright law.

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Post subject: Re: What’s Goin’ On?
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:05 am
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Miami Mike wrote:
I chose fine as they are. The internet has changed the music industry but it's great for intellectual property lawyers now that it's stunningly easy to violate copyright law.
Thanks for posting and voting, Mike.

My belief is that it is a double edge sword. Today’s media has become one of monopolies. Intellectual property lawyers, like any other lawyer, basically follow the letter of the law. That’s fine for them and their clients, most of which have an open and shut case of which there are some very good arguments for having representation.

The problem I have seen and worked with first hand is that the very same paper the laws are written on have been stained by many of these proponents where empires have been built with hypocritical misuse of copyrights, and out in the open non contested theft of intellectual properties. The bigger they get the more of the same they devour from others having practiced the same intellectual property disregard. Diogenes would have had to search wide and far amongst those empires in order to find an honest media builder or, perhaps, the odd staff member who didn’t grab that untouchable freebie all for the good of the product presented to the masses and the cause.

Now these organizations, and they know who they are, find fault by the cherry picking method or by any means to rewrite the very book they ignored and maybe plagiarized on the way to the bank where profits were made unethically, and sometimes illegally.

Besides, when the moguls own it all, those copyrights need a closer look to see if they were and are justified. What is the plan and who are the benefactors for future consideration. How did we arrive at the conclusion? Is it reasonable for today? Was it reasonable when the laws were initiated? Nowhere would I profess the laws be unfair to the industry, only that the rules of the game allow the participation of the supporters lest they start their own league. :P
FSB

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Post subject: Re: What’s Goin’ On?
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:45 am
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No clear winner on copyright so far, although, it is leaning towards copyright as is and as it appears to be moving forward.

FSB

Thanks for the posts gang. Get your votes in if you haven’t yet done so. :D

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Post subject: Re: What’s Goin’ On?
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:03 am
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How long do these copyrights exist? Long after we are gone. Have a look (by country):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... ht_lengths

FSB

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Post subject: Re: What’s Goin’ On?
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:37 pm
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
How long do these copyrights exist? Long after we are gone. Have a look (by country):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... ht_lengths

Baffling... US is Life+70 years, yet we always hear people talk about the copyrights for classic rock including the 70s works as having expired... often given as the reason reality shows tend to perform older music.
Or is it different when the artist sells/signs their rights to a corporation/studio?

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Post subject: Re: What’s Goin’ On?
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:35 pm
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Disclamer: Any copyright information I have submitted here or elsewhere in the Forum(s) is only information gathered, known, or expressed by others. It’s all subject to change and location plays a part. It is not to be used as anything other than for a topical discussion and for your entertainment. It is not legal advice. The updated laws, legislation, regulations, and agreements are available for you elsewhere should you need them. I take no responsibility as this disclaimer shows. I have been a producer; but, I ain’t no lawyer. Hopefully, this gives you an idea what to look for as you rock on. :wink:

There are differences all over the map. Rich. You have it right with the latter of recording companies (and publishing).

As I stated earlier, copyright is complicated and confusing (that’s why they gave us lawyers) which, for the less privileged, creates a difficult time for digesting it. It sort of waves the typical proclamation of “Ignorance of the law is no excuse”. I think it is an excuse with the paperwork pile and fluff. It reminds me of when I used to tell my co-workers, “I didn’t design the dang blasted thing, I just run it”. Seems that user friendly and logic doesn’t apply to laws like these. Pity. Some say, “Just make it work”. I say, “Make it so it will work!”

I know that here in Canada many are led to believe that a set amount of bars or length of a recording is permitted without penalty. Wrong! That is a myth.

Obviously, the originator (unattached by contract or agreement) is as you said. Public Domain (depending on country) = Years, Life, or Life+ Years accordingly.

A recording/publishing company may hold copyright for the recording and arrangement, and maybe they created or paid for and own the original work. Perhaps, the author and/or performer is also the publisher and/or the record producer.

Another recording of it as is would add an expense to the new performance were it a dub or copy of the copywritten recording. Whether the originator comes into play depends on where the existing copyright qualifies and lies,

Now if it is a new completely different arrangement from the master recording holding the copyright in whichever areas that are in effect, it may fall into something like this (Canadian, but likely similar elsewhere):

Public Domain: There are many copy-written arrangements of Public Domain. If you play your original (not another’s) arrangement no license is required.

If you reproduce a Public Domain song that has been recorded and holds a valid copyright then, “Yes!”. Pay the man or men, woman or women, but only for the reproduction as it applies.

Of course, the payment may include the mechanical license for the musical work owned by the Publisher, and a second license regarding copyright in order to use the material of the master recording. Suffice to say that these rights could be combined under the Publisher and/or the Studios. Note it is possible that neither may own the rights; however, others may. These rights are bought and sold or restricted by anyone willing to participate. Individuals, family, companies, and so on.

Okay, now that I’ve confused it again, you can see it is all confusing. That’s why organizations exist to ease the process. But, that’s another story.

In the industry we’d grab a company lawyer if we were in need, but a few connections and mutual agreements worked at times. Being friends with the head of the musicians’ union didn’t hurt either. Having someone with a big bankroll also doesn’t hurt, and I’ve worked where the answer was, “I don’t care how much it costs. I want it. Get it”. Contracted musicians, if they’re lucky, often have producers with a vault that can do that. The downside is that it may cost the musician(s) at the end of the journey.

Okay. That’s the gist. Add this:

The period (after’78) for copyright generally ends 70 years later (USA) with the last survivor’s Life + 70 years in the case of two authors.

“Works made for hire” (or with an employee) such as specifically for motion pictures or other audio video media = after 95 years publication or 120 years after creation.

Factoid:
1893 Happy Birthday published
1935 Copy-written
2030 Copyright expires

This may explain why some songs get the green light, some the yellow, and others the red.

Hope this helps, Rich.

FSB

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