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Post subject: Are you using wireless at all?
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:00 am
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For starters, it can’t operate between 616MHz–653MHz and 663MHz–698MHz — none of these older systems are in compliance with the new law. In fact, you can’t sell a noncompliant system without providing full disclosure about its July 13, 2020 (or earlier) expiration date, as these systems will have zero value in the US market at that point.

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/fcc-s ... n=20180324

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Post subject: Re: Are you using wireless at all?
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:59 pm
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Wireless microphones as a topic. Great choice and lots of arguments for and against. My experience is that for recording wired is King. Here in Canada wireless mic regulations are similar to our brothers’ and sisters’ in the USA and in some cases with the UK and Australia.

In 1995 I had a customer who was a major player in local real estate. He had a friend who was a major realtor in LA. Back then little was discussed about cellphones and EMF, and those early phones were either not measured or poor at the very best. For all the reasons given, industry and naysayers took a stance to research and document it. The realtor I knew refused to use a cell without earphones because his LA friend got cancer where he held his phone. Was a cellphone the cause? Nobody can say for sure, but he was a heavy user, and my customer didn’t want to chance it. Unfortunately, the same fate and usage befell my mover and shaker kid brother, and he succumbed to brain cancer, again where his cellphone got heavy usage, as have others like Gord Downie recently of The Tragically Hip.

That brought me to wonder, as this topic begins, if EMF and wireless microphones were studied or even questioned. Well, I ran across one extremely credible (IMHO) Swiss study that shows they have. It’s very thorough, but without going into the full text and science (which would take a week to digest) :lol: I thought I’d add the following links just to enhance this thread. (The links may be slow, but worth the wait).

Please, don’t flame me about the pros and cons regarding EMF (which will surely rear it’s ugly head elsewhere, and at another time in the future). This is purely for your perusal, and FYI. I don’t want to start any waves. :wink:

Tip: I found the second link an easier more pleasurable read.

https://www.bakom.admin.ch/dam/bakom/en ... ission.pdf

https://www.bakom.admin.ch/dam/bakom/en ... transm.pdf

Now you and I know. :D
FSB

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Post subject: Re: Are you using wireless at all?
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:30 am
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Hi,

Is this regulation affecting also wireless guitar transmitters?


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Post subject: Re: Are you using wireless at all?
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:28 am
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chromeface wrote:
Hi,

Is this regulation affecting also wireless guitar transmitters?
Frequencies between 698 and 806 commonly known as the 700 MHZ band are the main concern, and if your guitar wireless frequency falls in this range the answer is yes you are likely to be affected depending on your local and/or country regulations.

Retailers and manufacturers are pretty much up to speed with the new gear as regulated now. That should help with more detailed info. should you need it. Just know that there are still wireless units sitting on the shelf that will not be suitable later, and these are supposed to be detailed and announced to the prospective buyer. Current owners of non-suitable wireless gear may or may not find a discount.

Note: There are some regulations that contain licensing or exceptions in the 600 frequency range, but those vary according to agreements, mostly local, and they are of few concerns. If you live by a border you may find that should a frequency be taken on the other side your frequency may not be available. As a general guideline, if you can use any of the frequencies that is spec’d with the latest gear you should be good to go.

Hope that helps.

FSB

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Post subject: Re: Are you using wireless at all?
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:44 am
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FSB, sorry to hear about your mother and brother.

The people who consider cellphones and wireless to be health risks are very concerned about the upcoming switch from the 4G standard to the 5G standard. They're speculating that even avoiding/reducing cellphone use won't matter -- just living near a tower will be bad. (And nowadays just about everyone lives near a tower.)


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Post subject: Re: Are you using wireless at all?
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:09 am
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strayedstrater wrote:
FSB, sorry to hear about your mother and brother.

The people who consider cellphones and wireless to be health risks are very concerned about the upcoming switch from the 4G standard to the 5G standard. They're speculating that even avoiding/reducing cellphone use won't matter -- just living near a tower will be bad. (And nowadays just about everyone lives near a tower.)
Thank You, strayedstrater. My mother is alive at 95. That was a misread as it was my (mover and shaker) brother almost two years ago. His cellphone was in constant use. He was a mover and shaker helping to get things done by helping to build the largest community in Canada; a Rec centre, parks, library, recreational and disability walkways, sculptures and artwork, street parties for youth, and more. He was named an unofficial mayor, pressed to run for election, and honoured by the Canadian government on his passing. His last project was a permanent :D band shell for local musicians since he didn’t play - but wanted to.

Yeah, EMF is overlooked. I read somewhere that one cellphone manual suggests to hold the cellphone away from the body by an inch (obviously, aside from temp use with your ears). I worked in close proximity to towers, antennas, radar, and industrial microwaves, along with other gear that had radiation, including a reactor facility. I’m still here, but I knew plenty of others that have left before their time, and their cause for a related disease is uncertain to be sure. I do know that it was pointed out to me that those working by the reactor were estimated to have averaged a 10 year lesser life span, however that works. It’s certainly not for everyone, nor is it a wireless setup. :wink: As for mics, just like phones, it’s not so much the knowledge of EMF leakage (including transmitters) . . . it’s the testing or lack of that seems suspect. Still, many use both with no known damage, so it’s a roll of the dice IMHO.

I’m older now and considering a wireless for guitar, but waited for the frequency change to settle down. Not sure if I would go that route being younger, and doing it full time, however. YMMV

‘Nuff said.

FSB

Factoid: Frank Sinatra preferred a wired mic.

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Last edited by Fender Strat Brat on Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Are you using wireless at all?
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:43 am
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I once owned a Line6 G90 Relay wireless for guitar.
The high end rack-mount version.
I sold it because it seemed like I lost all touch sensitivity.
I felt it would have been useful for a shredder who uses tons of compression, where touch plays almost no role in tone.
Since that's not me, it went away.
Also, the range was not as advertised.
It was supposed to have a range of 300 feet but realistically it was 30 or 40 feet.
You could go further but sonic artifacts and time delays crept in the further you went.

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Post subject: Re: Are you using wireless at all?
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:14 am
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Good to know about the Line6 G90, BMW-KTM. That has, for the most part, garnered a pretty good reputation, so it’s good to hear about the real world. Maybe, units like these should be spec’d at best and expected on the average low end scenario. Yeah, right. Worst would be not at all. :lol: Not unusual to hear about the tone being sucked out though, huh?

Not having experienced it, I’m wondering if tone with digital wireless is a plus or minus. The cord is a given. Musicality is another issue as you touched upon, and things like intermodulation distortion amongst other typical nuisances can even play a part in reaching that desired sound.

I suppose what the player hears and what the crowd hears are two different things as usual.

FSB

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Post subject: Re: Are you using wireless at all?
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:40 am
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The FCC carefully regulates which frequencies you can and can't use. If your wireless equipment operates at the wrong frequency, you not only risk unreliable performance, you could also be subject to fines and/or criminal penalties. A lot of resellers claim to be knowledgeable about these laws, but they're not.

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Post subject: Re: Are you using wireless at all?
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:42 am
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I used to use a Line 6 G50, but it started flaking out after about a year, and it got so bad I eventually took it out of service.

Now I use (and have been using for the past 2-3 years) a Shure GLX-D. Other than the footswitch no longer working (result: lost the tuner function), it's been solid. One caveat, though, and this applies also to Shure's wireless mics that run in the 2.4 GHz (WiFi) space: You have to be vigilant regarding group and channel selection, especially in a WiFi-rich environment. It's all explained in the manual. If you just la-la through it by taking the defaults, and hope for the best, good luck. You also have to be careful re. what 2.4 GHz units from other manufacturers you permit while the Shure equipment is running. This is because every manufacturer slices up its 2.4 GHz "pie" in different ways.

UHF systems sidestep the problem of WiFi spectrum saturation. However, free UHF frequency slots are location-specific. At each individual town you play at, you have to make sure the transmitter/receiver pair is set to a frequency you know beforehand is free at that particular location. My personal opinion is that automatic scanning is unacceptable, and that it's always best to start with a reputable frequency map for the town you're going to play in. Example:

http://en-us.sennheiser.com/service-sup ... ncy-finder

Hth

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Post subject: Re: Are you using wireless at all?
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:28 am
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FSB, sorry to hear about what happened to your brother. Seems doubly bad if he suffered a premature demise based on his efforts to do good things.

As has been pointed out if the frequency in the air around us from all the wireless devices, antennas and towers are bad for us than we're probably all living on borrowed time.

I have used a wireless on my bass since the early 90's. Back when I first got one it was for convenience and mobility. And in all honesty probably a bit of youthful pride, to show off a bit.

Last fall I purchased a Line 6 G30, but it was not reliable at all in live situations. Regardless of the channel selected I frequently would have dropouts of my bass signal even when the receive light on the receiving unit was solidly lit. But of course since those operate on 2.4G like every cell phone and router around who knows what else it was picking up? I was provided a replacement unit from Sweetwater and had the same results. I now have replaced that unit with a Shure 900m unit and have had good results.

At this point in my life I depend on my wireless to assist in running our PA during performances. I routinely walk out in front to listen and adjust as needed. Yes, I could get by with maybe a 30 ft cable but I envision spending alot of time untangling it on breaks.

I guess we can all try to personally limit our exposure but the word around us is moving that direction more and more. Businesses are making boo-koo $$'s selling the convenience so any harmful effects will be downplayed.


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Post subject: Re: Are you using wireless at all?
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:16 am
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Thanks, for your kind words, Chris. Appreciated.

This thread is helpful to let others know the real world issues and benefits of wireless. Your post added some good observations. Also, consider that when one sees and hears a favourite band or artist using a wireless . . . consider the venue. It may be in a more controllable location, and cost often does matter in the overall picture. Having said that, we all know less expensive wireless can work in some cases and locations. Therefore, a controllable situation and location seems to be a pretty big deciding factor. :wink:
I remember working what amounts to your State Fair. There was so much communication going on about us. Our professional corded audio and video was plagued with interference. Old tube equipment could pass microphonic lines to video screens. Headsets and mics could pickup the latest top ten tunes, perhaps from our own high powered station nearby hahaha!! We had wireless in the 60s - and we didn’t want it. :lol: Equipment today is far better, but perfect it is not.

I don’t want to sound like an alarmist, but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that lack of quality control or desire to monitor and do the right thing does play a part. I’ve had two bouts of x-rays in a little over a week. A little concerned, but I’m not pulling my hair out knowing that those machines are regularly maintained. From what I’ve heard, the airports’ x-ray security machine is not always cared for as it should be in the public’s interest. Two of those in a week would present more concern; but, then again I’d be walking amongst all kinds of activity including radar and microwaves. Take that care and attention or lack of concept to the personal mass produced level. Well, whatever the case, we may never know or have the support to know any more than we do today.

Wireless and other wave technology is not going away. We may soon be sitting beside or under it with driverless cars, and if we ever discover the ramifications of it all with credibility I’m afraid it will come with a Big Bang. Let’s hope for the best, and until then let’s hope for a safe but useful solution.

Gotta go. My WiFi speakers are waiting :roll:
Rawk On - wireless or not
FSB

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Post subject: Re: Are you using wireless at all?
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:47 am
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craig.p wrote:
One caveat, though, and this applies also to Shure's wireless mics that run in the 2.4 GHz (WiFi) space: You have to be vigilant regarding group and channel selection, especially in a WiFi-rich environment. It's all explained in the manual.

absolutely, and that goes for all 2.4GHz devices.

The wifi spectrum is broken up into different 'channels'. Each channels overlaps other channels, as seen below:

Image

Any group of channels can become oversaturated. So the only way to place yourself optimally in the spectrum of available channels is to do a wireless survey to determine which channels are the most saturated. (there's an app for that!). Then use that information to manually configure your device to connect on one of the less saturated channels.


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Post subject: Re: Are you using wireless at all?
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:11 pm
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The 2.4 GHz spectrum is broken up into segments, but (again), each manufacturer defines those slices, and their bandwidths, in a proprietary fashion. Yes, for WiFi networking, we have channels 1-11 in the U.S., but those "slices" pertain only to Wifi networking and are not conceptually transportable to non-Wifi environments running in the same 2.4 GHz range. Too complex to go into here, but a WiFi channel scanner will be of limited or no value when trying to determine how to set up a M.I. transmitter/receiver pair, because those things don't slice up the spectrum in the same fashion. It's best to follow the manufacturer's advice regarding use in environments that will potentially flood that spectrum.

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Post subject: Re: Are you using wireless at all?
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:33 pm
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craig.p, no the manufacturers do not choose where the channels overlap. Perhaps you mean they can choose which channels are available on a particular device.

2.4 GHz (802.11b/g/n) frequency range is the 2.4 GHz frequency range, no matter what equipment is using it.


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