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Post subject: A piece on music theory
Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:52 pm
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So a friend asked me for his kid if I had a good simple reference for understanding the basics of music theory and even though there is everything on the internet, I didn't find any one thing that offered a picture that I thought was both simple *and* complete, so since I like writing about things and thinking, I decided to put together something myself that I thought offered the right balance between simple and comprehensive. Some music people might enjoy this. :)

https://markhahnguitar.wordpress.com/20 ... of-fifths/

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Post subject: Re: A piece on music theory
Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:53 pm
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Thanks for the article. 8) Music theory has been sort of a half arsed thing that I've learned over the years. I can hack my way through a few things like reading music, and know a lot about the relative major minor thing, but by no means a technical expert.

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Post subject: Re: A piece on music theory
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:57 pm
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PaulLF wrote:
Thanks for the article. 8) Music theory has been sort of a half arsed thing that I've learned over the years. I can hack my way through a few things like reading music, and know a lot about the relative major minor thing, but by no means a technical expert.


Somehow when I was young and forced to take piano lessons, I learned to read music, but it gave me no intuition of how things went together in the simplest ways, so when I picked up guitar and just focused on simple chords and scales, it became a lot more fun for me! :)

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Post subject: Re: A piece on music theory
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:08 pm
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Thanks, Mark for your informative post. Reading music has been a desire that has passed me by from having a brain like spaghetti. I’ve had plenty of opportunity both vocally and instrumentally, and it sure would be beneficial then and now.

I know there are plenty of songwriters and performers that sit in that same den of no music reading blackness. James Taylor to speak of one. I have read drum notation, however, and it too can be difficult in a different way with all the percussion pieces to read and do simultaneously. Not keeping the reading up takes a toll like other ignored music related practice. Understanding timing, bars, breaks, and so on did help me with other instrumentation, Once I knew whose part was coming in to play, I blocked out and called live camera shots on weekly music telecasts with bands. If I had the score blocked I could or an assistant could follow it. So that’s one up on James Taylor :lol: Sorry, James. :wink:Some brainiac will, perhaps, come up with a better way rather than another way. I don’t think that will happen in my time, however. I’ve heard reading tabs are not as popular now. Any truth to that I can’t say.

Cheers!
FSB

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Post subject: Re: A piece on music theory
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:22 pm
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Thank you for posting the link Mark. 8)

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Post subject: Re: A piece on music theory
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:56 pm
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mh2000 wrote:
PaulLF wrote:
Thanks for the article. 8) Music theory has been sort of a half arsed thing that I've learned over the years. I can hack my way through a few things like reading music, and know a lot about the relative major minor thing, but by no means a technical expert.


Somehow when I was young and forced to take piano lessons, I learned to read music, but it gave me no intuition of how things went together in the simplest ways, so when I picked up guitar and just focused on simple chords and scales, it became a lot more fun for me! :)


I wish I was forced to take piano lessons! That's one instrument I do have the desire to learn how to play, or at least some form of keyboards. The real reason I even know a lot of the theory I do is because my ear wasn't that great when I started out and it was the best way to learn my way on the fretboard on the bass. The two things that helped me were the movable major and minor scales, which can cover pretty much everything with guitar chords, as far as major and minor chords go. Of course, then you get into 7ths and those freaky jazz chords. :P

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Post subject: Re: A piece on music theory
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:20 pm
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PaulLF wrote:
mh2000 wrote:
PaulLF wrote:
Thanks for the article. 8) Music theory has been sort of a half arsed thing that I've learned over the years. I can hack my way through a few things like reading music, and know a lot about the relative major minor thing, but by no means a technical expert.


Somehow when I was young and forced to take piano lessons, I learned to read music, but it gave me no intuition of how things went together in the simplest ways, so when I picked up guitar and just focused on simple chords and scales, it became a lot more fun for me! :)


I wish I was forced to take piano lessons! That's one instrument I do have the desire to learn how to play, or at least some form of keyboards. The real reason I even know a lot of the theory I do is because my ear wasn't that great when I started out and it was the best way to learn my way on the fretboard on the bass. The two things that helped me were the movable major and minor scales, which can cover pretty much everything with guitar chords, as far as major and minor chords go. Of course, then you get into 7ths and those freaky jazz chords. :P


I just bought a nice Yamaha P-115B electric piano on a killer two day sale at GC. Don't remember anything from the few lessons I took other than where middle-C is, but I'm giving it a go... kind of like the movable shapes route and not the music reading way! Cool thing about the Yamaha is it will transpose keys!!! Haha! Only need to learn chords and scales in one key then transpose to get the others for free!!!

Before you say that's cheating, it's exactly what Irving Berlin did! Couldn't read a lick of music or play anything but the key of F-sharp major and transposed to everything else! (I thought this was cool when I read about it!)

https://www.straightdope.com/columns/re ... e-compose/

And thanks guys for the appreciation!

:)

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Post subject: Re: A piece on music theory
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:00 pm
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Great article and thread, Mark. I found it interesting not only because Irving could not read, but once he’d made it that didn’t change. I guess one could ask why would it? Only for adding to his skills and satisfaction, I suppose. That would be reason for me, but like others, I find my concentration and recall of it all lacking. I sometimes think I don’t care to put in the time. :roll:
The amount of non readers and non writers of music is phenomenal; but, not surprising. Software to add notation and even to play notation exists. Successful music projects have come with and without the skill of reading and writing music, and I don’t see that changing. It may not have to, and we may see less of this learning in the future. IMHO.

Enjoy that keyboard, Mark.

FSB

Factoid: Earliest known notation of music was circa 2000 BC on a clay tablet in ancient Iraq (Nippur, Sumer). I wonder if Little Nipper knew that. :P

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Post subject: Re: A piece on music theory
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:12 pm
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mh2000 wrote:
PaulLF wrote:
mh2000 wrote:
PaulLF wrote:
Thanks for the article. 8) Music theory has been sort of a half arsed thing that I've learned over the years. I can hack my way through a few things like reading music, and know a lot about the relative major minor thing, but by no means a technical expert.


Somehow when I was young and forced to take piano lessons, I learned to read music, but it gave me no intuition of how things went together in the simplest ways, so when I picked up guitar and just focused on simple chords and scales, it became a lot more fun for me! :)


I wish I was forced to take piano lessons! That's one instrument I do have the desire to learn how to play, or at least some form of keyboards. The real reason I even know a lot of the theory I do is because my ear wasn't that great when I started out and it was the best way to learn my way on the fretboard on the bass. The two things that helped me were the movable major and minor scales, which can cover pretty much everything with guitar chords, as far as major and minor chords go. Of course, then you get into 7ths and those freaky jazz chords. :P


I just bought a nice Yamaha P-115B electric piano on a killer two day sale at GC. Don't remember anything from the few lessons I took other than where middle-C is, but I'm giving it a go... kind of like the movable shapes route and not the music reading way! Cool thing about the Yamaha is it will transpose keys!!! Haha! Only need to learn chords and scales in one key then transpose to get the others for free!!!

Before you say that's cheating, it's exactly what Irving Berlin did! Couldn't read a lick of music or play anything but the key of F-sharp major and transposed to everything else! (I thought this was cool when I read about it!)

https://www.straightdope.com/columns/re ... e-compose/

And thanks guys for the appreciation!

:)


Sounds good. 8) Speaking of transposing, I've used a capo when I play guitar, so I can use open chord shapes for different keys. I have large hands, so it's difficult for me to play chords using four fingers cleanly, or even move around with them, so I've had to do that, or partial chord shapes. It's the main reason I've just stuck with playing the bass. I'm thinking a piano would be a lot easier for me to play, if I can learn it, since you don't have to cramp up your hand on a neck.

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Post subject: Re: A piece on music theory
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:05 am
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Great articles Mark and interesting thread. I was forced to take piano lessons and learned to read music for two years when I was 9-10 years old. I didn't really like it but it was ok because my sister did it at the same time and we had fun playing together. I started playing guitar at age 12 because I liked the instrument better and it was way cooler, IMO. But now, after all these years, I am looking for a keyboard. I might go for that Yamaha P-115B electric piano that you bought. I like the idea that it transposes keys. That is very cool. I'm looking for something that will work well with my DAW. 8)

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Post subject: Re: A piece on music theory
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:43 am
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Very nice Mark, a lot of good, useful information. Thanks for posting.


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Post subject: Re: A piece on music theory
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:50 pm
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Thanks again, guys! I'm glad you found it enjoyable and useful! :)

Regarding the keyboard, the Y 115B is great and I am totally loving it! It has all the basic features I wanted including standard lineout plugs! I got mine for $499 which is really good since they rarely go on sale.

If anyone is looking for a cheap keyboard, my gf bought the amazon exclusive P71 which is really pretty nice for a standard price of only $399... you do give up the lineout and the specs are all a little lower, but after playing both, other than the lineout, which makes my recording job a lot more in line with my established workflow, the P71 would be great to start with at a nice price! The P71 has a USB plug so you can record onto a computer...

Yeah, with respect to key changing and a capo, I've given up trying to play barre chords... just ain't happening!

But both times I went and saw J Mascis play, I noticed that he never once played a single barre chord either! So I'm not going to beat myself up!

Regarding the importance of reading music... I think it mostly depends on what you want to do... I mean, I *know* how to read music, just count up from middle-C and check for sharps or flats... and I know how the timing works, but I couldn't physically do much more than Row, Row, Row Your Boat... but I like making up my own stuff more anyway... so I=IV-V chords and the Pentatonic scale works as a better foundation... for me anyway.

My gf once tried to take guitar lessons and the teacher didn't teach anything about either! It was more drills and then learning songs without any background! Not even telling her about the chords or something as obvious as a 12 Bar Blues song!

Anyway, I'm glad I could offer something that you enjoyed!

Rock on! :)

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Post subject: Re: A piece on music theory
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:06 am
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PaulLF wrote:
mh2000 wrote:
PaulLF wrote:
mh2000 wrote:
PaulLF wrote:
Thanks for the article. 8) Music theory has been sort of a half arsed thing that I've learned over the years. I can hack my way through a few things like reading music, and know a lot about the relative major minor thing, but by no means a technical expert.


Somehow when I was young and forced to take piano lessons, I learned to read music, but it gave me no intuition of how things went together in the simplest ways, so when I picked up guitar and just focused on simple chords and scales, it became a lot more fun for me! :)


I wish I was forced to take piano lessons! That's one instrument I do have the desire to learn how to play, or at least some form of keyboards. The real reason I even know a lot of the theory I do is because my ear wasn't that great when I started out and it was the best way to learn my way on the fretboard on the bass. The two things that helped me were the movable major and minor scales, which can cover pretty much everything with guitar chords, as far as major and minor chords go. Of course, then you get into 7ths and those freaky jazz chords. :P


I just bought a nice Yamaha P-115B electric piano on a killer two day sale at GC. Don't remember anything from the few lessons I took other than where middle-C is, but I'm giving it a go... kind of like the movable shapes route and not the music reading way! Cool thing about the Yamaha is it will transpose keys!!! Haha! Only need to learn chords and scales in one key then transpose to get the others for free!!!

Before you say that's cheating, it's exactly what Irving Berlin did! Couldn't read a lick of music or play anything but the key of F-sharp major and transposed to everything else! (I thought this was cool when I read about it!)

https://www.straightdope.com/columns/re ... e-compose/

And thanks guys for the appreciation!

:)


Sounds good. 8) Speaking of transposing, I've used a capo when I play guitar, so I can use open chord shapes for different keys. I have large hands, so it's difficult for me to play chords using four fingers cleanly, or even move around with them, so I've had to do that, or partial chord shapes. It's the main reason I've just stuck with playing the bass. I'm thinking a piano would be a lot easier for me to play, if I can learn it, since you don't have to cramp up your hand on a neck.

You probably already know this, Paul but Warmoth makes nice superwide necks, if you still want to give the 6-string a try. :) http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Necks/Sup ... thPro.aspx

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Post subject: Re: A piece on music theory
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:15 am
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Music Theory:

If it feels good, and sounds good....play it.


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Post subject: Re: A piece on music theory
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:21 am
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White Dog wrote:
Music Theory:

If it feels good, and sounds good....play it.
Unless you get a request to play “Far, Far Away”. :lol:
FSB

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