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Post subject: Have you ever dimed a 100 watt amp?
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:54 pm
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Over on another forum devoted to a popular rock amp manufacturer, a lot of people say they've never turned their masters up above 3 or 4 because it causes them physical pain, and can't imagine being in the same room as one of that company's dimed classic non master volume amps.

One guy keeps starting threads asking if there's something wrong with his amps or ears, because he loves full volume. And many people say "impossible, your ears would bleed, nobody could possibly enjoy that, there must be something wrong with your JVM, JCM900, and/or your 1960 cab".

(Oops, did I just give away the brand?))

I'm one of very few who says I've loved every minute I've spent standing in front of dimed 100w and 130w amps.

I accept and understand that many people experience pain at lower volume than I do. And some sounds hurt my ears at lower volume than guitar amps do -- circular saws make me wear earplugs.

And I know that high volume cumulatively damages hearing, and extreme volume can cause instant damage. Permanent, irreversible damage. So I've always tried to limit length of time and frequency of exposure, even though I love the sensation.

Just curious how many people enjoy dimed big amps.


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Post subject: Re: Have you ever dimed a 100 watt amp?
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:08 pm
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Huh? Watt?

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Do not be fooled into thinking your ears are more resilient than the next person. Personally I turn up my amp until it matches the volume of the band. If I'm not playing with a band, I keep the volume fairly low.


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Post subject: Re: Have you ever dimed a 100 watt amp?
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:23 pm
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As I said, high volume causes hearing damage. Even if you enjoy it, and even if it doesn't cause pain.

I've done and continue to do lots of things that damage my body. I'm not recommending it or encouraging it. I'm just asking how many people enjoy it despite the consequences.


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Post subject: Re: Have you ever dimed a 100 watt amp?
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:10 pm
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I dimed a 130 watt Boogie head into a 412 cabinet in one of those small glass amp-demo rooms at a music store.
That was quite an experience.
It was short though.
I was asked to leave that store and not return.
It occurred to me too late to be of use but shortly after I got into my car I realized I should have said the Tommy Chong line as I was escorted out.

"Cheap f~@&$ng amp."

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Post subject: Re: Have you ever dimed a 100 watt amp?
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:33 pm
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strayedstrater wrote:
As I said

I don't think you're listening to everything you said.
strayedstrater wrote:
So I've always tried to limit length of time and frequency of exposure, even though I love the sensation

That's like saying "oh sure I know heroin is addictive and lethal over time, but I've always tried to limit size of the dose and frequency of use, even though I love the sensation. Eh yeah, a little heroin should be fine. :roll:


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Post subject: Re: Have you ever dimed a 100 watt amp?
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:48 pm
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ghost_of_strings wrote:
strayedstrater wrote:
As I said

I don't think you're listening to everything you said.
strayedstrater wrote:
So I've always tried to limit length of time and frequency of exposure, even though I love the sensation

That's like saying "oh sure I know heroin is addictive and lethal over time, but I've always tried to limit size of the dose and frequency of use, even though I love the sensation. Eh yeah, a little heroin should be fine. :roll:


OHSA has regulations for length of exposure and frequency of exposure to SPLs. It's a valid, scientifically accepted concept.

Yes, there are levels that cause instant damage. Below that, if you observe proper limits damage can be avoided.
--------------------
Many people enjoy their prescriptions for oxycontin and fentanyl (stronger than heroin) and use them responsibly as directed without becoming addicted.

Yes the risk of abuse is there and many people overdo it. That doesn't mean everyone abuses it.
--------------
It's been a few years since I've been tested but the audiologist said my hearing is in the normal range for a man my age.


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Post subject: Re: Have you ever dimed a 100 watt amp?
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:25 pm
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I only have an 85 watt Twin Reverb. I got up the nerve once to actually try and dime it. I couldn't follow through and did not have the courage to touch a string while set at 10. The energy in the room was otherworldly. I took it down to 5, strummed a couple of chords and that was that.


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Post subject: Re: Have you ever dimed a 100 watt amp?
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:49 pm
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strayedstrater wrote:
OHSA has regulations for length of exposure and frequency of exposure to SPLs. It's a valid, scientifically accepted concept

Do yourself a favor, go out and get yourself a decibel meter and place it close to your ears next time you “dime” a 100w amp. I don’t see how you could have any way of knowing just how much volume you are subjecting yourself to without taking a measurement. If you have an iPhone there is an app called Decibel X which probably isn’t 100% accurate but it’s better than guessing.

I remember one band where we were auditioning a replacement drummer, and we passed on a really good player because he couldn’t keep the volume under control. And we didn’t tell him that, we just went with someone else.


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Post subject: Re: Have you ever dimed a 100 watt amp?
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:09 pm
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Did it many times with my Peavey Deuce in the bedroom when I was a kid.
Deuce was a 2x12 combo, and I built a 4x12 cabinet using Radio Shack guitar speakers, so it was a 6x12 stack.
Never ran it that high actually playing with anyone else, did it in practice a few times to prove the drummer wasn't the loudest guy in the room :D
And ya... today I have severe hearing loss above 3k and a constant ringing.

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Post subject: Re: Have you ever dimed a 100 watt amp?
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:12 am
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ghost_of_strings wrote:
strayedstrater wrote:
OHSA has regulations for length of exposure and frequency of exposure to SPLs. It's a valid, scientifically accepted concept

Do yourself a favor, go out and get yourself a decibel meter and place it close to your ears next time you “dime” a 100w amp. I don’t see how you could have any way of knowing just how much volume you are subjecting yourself to without taking a measurement. If you have an iPhone there is an app called Decibel X which probably isn’t 100% accurate but it’s better than guessing.

I remember one band where we were auditioning a replacement drummer, and we passed on a really good player because he couldn’t keep the volume under control. And we didn’t tell him that, we just went with someone else.


I've got a dB meter. Got it in '07 but haven't owned a big amp since then. I've taken it to jams where a few people did crank big amps. Highest reading I ever saw was 118dB.
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If you know the sensitivity/efficiency rating of a speaker at 1 watt/10 feet and know how far you are from the speaker, you can estimate the dB.

10X power adds 10dB. So at 100W about 20dB higher than the efficiency rating. Speakers are very non-linear so it can be +/-edB or so.

In an anechoic chamber, doubling the distance is -6dB. In the real world it's much more variable. Room gain, on/off axis, open/closed back cabs. In some clubs there was no volume drop even when I moved to the back of the room.


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Post subject: Re: Have you ever dimed a 100 watt amp?
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:14 am
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LawFlow wrote:
I only have an 85 watt Twin Reverb. I got up the nerve once to actually try and dime it. I couldn't follow through and did not have the courage to touch a string while set at 10. The energy in the room was otherworldly. I took it down to 5, strummed a couple of chords and that was that.


At 5 you were close to full volume. At 10 it would only be a little louder, but a lot more distorted and compressed.
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85 watts is close enough for this discussion. It takes double the power for a 3dB increase, 10 times the power for a 10dB increase.

Throw a pair of JBL's in a Twin Reverb and it can be louder than a Marshall half stack.


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Post subject: Re: Have you ever dimed a 100 watt amp?
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:41 am
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Have an audiometric hearing test done on yourself.
If you've been a gigging musician for most of your life, anything above 6kHz and below 25 Hz will likely be gone.
If those gigs were at old school dime volume then you're likely deaf at anything over 3kHz or below 30Hz.

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Post subject: Re: Have you ever dimed a 100 watt amp?
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:12 am
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Now you know why I have a 1000 watt bass head, just in case. :P

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Post subject: Re: Have you ever dimed a 100 watt amp?
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:00 am
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Nope.. Never..

I have a 30Watt Gibson Goldtone Class A Cathode Bias 2x12 Combo.

A few days after I got it in 2002, I turned it to about 3/4 and played one chord... just one.

The dogs ran for cover like I've never seen two dogs move before, the wall clock on the opposite wall to where I was standing fell to the floor and shattered in to hundreds of pieces of ceramic and plastic. My son was home, hanging out upstairs, he came down within 15 seconds, "What the ---- was that"... I pointed to the amp and said "E chord..."

I decided I didn't ever need that much volume.

To date, that amp has never been turned up much past 10 o'clock, which is plenty loud for anything I'll ever do.
and that was only 30 watts and it wasn't dimed...

diming 100 watts?? no... I don't think I'd pass a hearing test after that.


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Post subject: Re: Have you ever dimed a 100 watt amp?
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:07 am
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strayedstrater wrote:
I've got a dB meter. Got it in '07 but haven't owned a big amp since then. I've taken it to jams where a few people did crank big amps. Highest reading I ever saw was 118dB.

yeah. That would be a problem.

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