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Post subject: Why the different truss rod sizes?
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:13 am
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Ive not had any luck finding out why Fender uses different truss rod sizes in the MIM and MIA lines.

3/16" and 1/8", wood headstock plug or thin black plastic plug, Headstock or Heel...
But why not just have one size?

Does anyone know why there are different styles??


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Post subject: Re: Why the different truss rod sizes?
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:38 am
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Why different parts ? Not only for truss rod ; to cut the price Fender buy parts from many manufacturer.


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Post subject: Re: Why the different truss rod sizes?
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:35 am
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Heel-adjust vs headstock adjust: For whatever reason, when Leo Fender owned the company all models had heel-adjust. Many people find that inconvenient, so in the '70s CBS began converting some models to headstock adjust (during most of the '70s you couldn't buy a new Strat with heel-adjust). But while that pleased many customers, there was significant push-back by other customers who wanted the rod Leo Fender designed. So when FMIC bought the company from CBS, they offered both versions.

Thin black plastic tube vs walnut plug with a narrow hole in the center: The walnut plug is an active part of the Bi-Flex rod system. When you unscrew the adjuster, it hits the plug and applies pressure to the rod, forcing more relief into the neck.

The standard single-action rod can only apply tension to the rod, not compression. So it can only actively straighten the neck. If you need more relief you loosen the adjuster and let the string tension pull relief into the neck.

The Bi-Flex is also the reason for different wrench sizes. Bi-Flex requires strong stiff walls in the adjuster nut, and also requires a broad wide contact area where the nut hits the walnut plug. The trade-off is that the smaller wrench is much more prone to stripping out the adjuster socket (especially since the Bi-Flex nut has a slight taper built in to make it easier to insert the wrench when sticking it through the long narrow blind hole in the plug -- if you don't insert the wrench fully into the nut it's a sloppy loose fit that can easily round-out the socket.)
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Personally, I'm one of those idiots who prefer the heel-adjust that God and Leo intended. I've owned a few headstock-adjust Fenders -- I don't hate them and they are a tiny bit more convenient.

But having never encountered a neck that needed to have more relief forced into it, I have zero desire for a Bi-Flex rod.

It's rare to strip out the MIM headstock adjuster nut. But if it happens it's super easy to fix -- jam a screwdriver into the nut, unscrew it, replace it.

It's less rare to strip the Bi-Flex nut (not common and almost always due to user-error, but it does happen sometimes). But that's a pretty major repair. You have to steam out or drill out the walnut plug, remove & replace the nut, trim a new plug, glue it in, then spot-refinish.

Oh, over the past 20 years I've read two accounts of people having the glue fail and the plug pop loose when they adjusted the Bi-Flex to add relief.

(I like 0.10~0.52s or heavier strings tuned to standard pitch. Actively adding relief can sometimes be a real need for people who like skinny little strings or who downtune. So the Bi-Flex isn't a totally useless thing, not a stupid gimmick. Just not something I've ever needed.)


Last edited by strayedstrater on Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Why the different truss rod sizes?
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:50 am
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strayedstrater,

You talk about different model , our friend ask about why different size


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Post subject: Re: Why the different truss rod sizes?
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:00 am
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stratele52 wrote:
strayedstrater,

You talk about different model , our friend ask about why different size


No, I explained why Bi-Flex needs a different size socket compared to the single-action headstock-adjust rod.

He also asked about heel vs headstock adjust, wood plugs vs black tubes, so I covered the whys and wherefores about those things.

Head vs heel isn't a cost thing, it's a historical thing.

Black plastic does have a cost element, but it's also because the wood plug with a hole isn't needed for a single-action rod.


Last edited by strayedstrater on Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Why the different truss rod sizes?
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:11 am
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But it's correct that cost is a factor. They could use the Bi-Flex adjuster nut on the single-action rods and just have one standard wrench size. But the thicker walls and tapered/flared socket add to the cost -- Bi-Flex adjuster nuts retail for $2 more than standard headstock-adjust nuts.


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Post subject: Re: Why the different truss rod sizes?
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:25 am
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One weird anomaly that always made me scratch my head wondering why they did it:

The Highway One series had the walnut plug with the hole and the Bi-Flex adjuster nut, but they weren't spec'ed as being Bi-Flex rods. So presumably they didn't have the internal anchor/collar under the 7th fret inlay and would be at risk of popping the skunk stripe loose if you ever tried to force relief into the neck.

I've seen x-rays and bluprints for Bi-Flex necks. Wish I could find either for the Hwy1 to see if it has the internal anchor.


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Post subject: Re: Why the different truss rod sizes?
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:55 pm
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strayedstrater wrote:
I've seen x-rays and bluprints for Bi-Flex necks. Wish I could find either for the Hwy1 to see if it has the internal anchor.

Likewise for the American Special. It also has the walnut plug, but I saw a post by 64Galaxie back in 2014 that linked to a Fender PDF (now a dead link) that indicated that the Special (thus, likely Hwy-1) does not have a BiFlex.
The MIM "Classic 70" has the bullet truss rod, and my replacement neck paperwork indeed indicates that it does not have the BiFlex (which I would expect with the bullet)
But the product description on the Fender site for the MIA "American Special" does indicate "Standard" under "Truss Rod" while the AM-Pro says "BiFlex"

So now, if the MIA "Special" does not have the BiFlex, does it use the same size Allen key as other MIA, or MIM nuts?

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Post subject: Re: Why the different truss rod sizes?
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:11 pm
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I seem to recall that the Special replaced the Hwy1 and specs are very similar.

Since the Special has the walnut plug with the hole through the center, it almost certainly has to use the smaller MIA wrench.
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Bi-Flex plug without the Bi-Flex anchor always struck me as the worst of all possible worlds. More fragile adjuster, harder to repair, but without the benefit of dual action.


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Post subject: Re: Why the different truss rod sizes?
Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:25 pm
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Would much rather have a Bullet if it isn't BiFlex, given it is a tribute to the 70s models, but I guess they wanted to better discern it from the MIM Classic 70s.

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Post subject: Re: Why the different truss rod sizes?
Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:05 pm
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wow great info, thanks, Id look all over for the why different sizes and the cosmetic wood vs black plastic...didnt know the heel history and all that.
i just changed a nut on a bass neck with black plastic and it just came out and went back in with a new one, 10 minutes, the wooden US neck I have requires a lot more work due to the wood plug, I think I would prefer the heel over that as I am not good with wood and dont want to damage the headstock


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Post subject: Re: Why the different truss rod sizes?
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:18 am
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On the AmSpecial/Highway1 truss rod; it's not a Bi-Flex™, and that info is still on Fender pages: http://www2.fender.com/experience/tech- ... truss-rod/
Quote:
Do all Fender guitars have Bi-Flex truss rods?
No, just some. As noted, Bi-Flex truss rods are currently offered in many American Standard, American Deluxe, Fender Select and Special Edition Stratocaster and Telecaster guitars (the Fender Select Carved Maple Top Jazzmaster HH has it, too). Other Fender guitar models, such as several in the American Special series and the Highway One series of 2002-2011, have truss rods that resemble but are not in fact Bi-Flex truss rods.

Can't explain that "several", though... Another Fender mystery. 8)

On those models & continuity, the AmSpecial neck is even called "NECK HWY 1 STRAT MN UPGRD NAT PNT" in the service diagram. The truss rod wrench is 1/8" on both models.


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Post subject: Re: Why the different truss rod sizes?
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:37 am
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Yep, weird. They used the more expensive adjuster nut and the more labor intensive (expensive) walnut plug with hole, but skimped on a couple dollars and left out the 7th fret anchor.

So no Bi-Flex function but the headache if you ever need to change the adjuster.

I can understand that they wanted to make it look upscale "American" instead of using the MIM black plastic trim ring. But I too would have been more interested in those models if they had used a Bullet adjuster.


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Post subject: Re: Why the different truss rod sizes?
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:25 pm
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I wonder if the thread is the same.... if so, we could pull the walnut plug and replace the nut with the bullet from the MIM neck?

But then when we try to sell it, someone would call it a Partscaster or MIM.

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Post subject: Re: Why the different truss rod sizes?
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:05 pm
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yea if you have the walnut plug its just going to be time to learn how to pull it out and glue in a new one and then finish it....or be careful not to strip it in the first place. of course.


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