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Post subject: Starting to Record
Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 11:17 am
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Hey guys, I have a Fender Jaguar, I'm not a massively experienced musician but want to start recording some demos, just to listen to etc. I need some tips on recording, and the most affordable (my Jag was expensive) way to get something that will sound decent. I've heard about Shure SM57s as being a bit of an 'all rounder' mic. Ideally I'd like something USB, are any of these acceptable for just tracking some demos or should I go down the USB interface route?

Thanks in advance for your help.


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Post subject: Re: Starting to Record
Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 10:57 pm
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Fender Jaguar?! Pretty nice. Welcome to the Forum, Beno27.

Your question gives you a ton of options which you have already run across.

I know that there are a variety of USB mikes and some are very good indeed. Rode and Blue have a good reputation for what they are. Some are better and more costly. and some are lacking. Convenience is a good thing, but in many cases it has limitations. Sometimes it can be looked at as a bonus feature rather than a major feature. It depends on one's goal and needs.

Having said that. I do not use USB mikes. I do use a Shure SM57 as a snare mike, acoustic mike, Strat amped, and occasionally for vocals. It is a workhorse and found in many pro studios. It's pretty indestructable, but can be damaged if you want it to be.

For my drums I mike each one and so a multi channel mixer gets involved and this can take my mike(s) if I need it. I can record with the SM 57 miking the amp for the electric (amp XLR outs to mixer would work too), or the acoustic with the SM 57, or the acoustic through a pedal/DI to the mixer, or both mike and pedal/DI on the acoustic to mixer. With a new mixer in the works I'll be able to plug the guitars directly into the mixer. The thing here is whether the amplifier, mixer, or computer, tablet, cellphone or other is going to add the effects.

The mixer then goes to a Focusrite 2i2 interface (others will work also) that takes the mixer's lineout to the 2i2 XLR (or others') line in. It then goes from the interface out to the computer's USB in. The interface may be omitted if the mixer has a USB out.

A simple form is to plug your mike(s) into an interface and then mike your amp and or an instrument accordingly. To the interface you can use one mike input for vocals, and your instrument in to connect your guitar directly at the interface should you choose. You then have a choice of DAWs (software) to get your effects and to record (amongst other offerings). More mikes, inputs, outputs, etc. obviously means more options. But, two inputs and two outputs should do you well if you are creative,

I like the ability that my recording doesn't have to be delegated to one mike. I do not use the large mixer most times. . . it's for those times I require it.

Tip: If you plan on adding a keyboard of some kind later, you'll find some interfaces have a midi connection as well. You can get by without it as I have; but, it is a plus if it should come along.

There are small interfaces, as you probably know, that mostly go with the guitar and cellphone/tablet and they do the job they are intended for. Some include mike and instrument input.

Whatever interface (and software) you may consider, should that be your choice, you will read or hear about latency. Don't worry about the specs too much. There are differences, but today the interfaces have very good standards and latency is becoming a thing of the past or, at the very least, it is very close to being gone, and millions work with it daily.

Others here may tune in with their experience with USB mikes, and these mikes may have merits that interest you. However, if you use the typical XLR mikes and associated gear you will give yourself many years of options should you decide to add to or change your recording setup. Besides, XLR is liable to outlast USB, although one never knows (adapters are always a possibility). Pretty hard to go wrong should you find yourself with a recording you want to duplicate or add to with another similar mike that you are sure to locate down the road.

But, hey! There's lots of good choices in this day and age. This is just one. Hope it gets you started.

Good luck on your choice, Beno27. Enjoy it here.

FSB

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Post subject: Re: Starting to Record
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 6:46 am
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^ What FSB said ^

You can use Audacity (free) to get started knowing your way around tracking and mixing.

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Post subject: Re: Starting to Record
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:54 am
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What do you plan on recording? Just the guitar? Will you use a backing track, or record your own drums/bass etc? Will it be a drum machine or real drums? Any keyboards? You mentioned USB so I'm guessing you want to record on your computer. What are the computer specs?

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Post subject: Re: Starting to Record
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 10:17 am
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Just a quick note:

One way to save is to look at interfaces that have a package. Some include a mike, cable, and appropriate recording headsets. We're not talking state of the art, but all in all there are some very good deals out there at a surprising price that won't break the bank. A great way to get started.

FSB

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Post subject: Re: Starting to Record
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:07 pm
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16 bit should be fine for just recording practice and jams.

This gives you a higher 24-bit/48 kHz :
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Fender/SLID ... ctads-adid^76729338762-device^c-plaid^151365159882-sku^1382969912878@ADL4GC-adType^PLA

Apogee Jam gets you to 98 kHz:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Apogee/JAM- ... r1|ClickCP

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Post subject: Re: Starting to Record
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:10 pm
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Good choices. Mike. Agreed that 16 bit depth will do the job at the entry level. 24 bit is better of course, but not so much for audible sound as it is for handling it. The more bits, the more pieces of data the gear can work with (usually in the background) to get a similar job completed. That said, if a higher bit rate is available great. If not, no worries in most cases. CDs are 16 bit, and most, if not all, software recording and mixing programs will handle 16 bit.

44.1 kHz sampling rate is CD quality. 48 kHz DVD and HDTV. 96 kHz is becoming very common both with software and hardware. 96 kHz and above (like 192 kHz) has in some areas been given the marketing name High Definition Audio. New WiFi speakers are playing back 96 kHz and 192 kHz for example. I won't bore you with all the possibilities of sample rates including up sampling.

Instead, it should be known that 96 kHz and below with bit rates of 16 or 24 are common. Higher is available, but, in some cases, it is the old story of manufacturer bragging rights over real world usage or limited application. In the professional world, however, the more digital information you can present to the recording engineer - the more there is to work with. If you are the recording engineer then you have the advantage of choosing what you need. :P
The higher kHz sampling rates do equate to sound quality, and the bit rates are an advantage as pointed out, but beware - the trade off is the higher the bit rate the more recording space is needed. As far as the crow flies 16 bit / 44.1 takes up approximately 1/3 the space of 24 bit / 96 kHz. (variables are possible). :D
Wrapping it up, Beno27, your needs appear to be, such that there is a lot of mumbo jumbo in the digital world and this only scrapes the surface, and you can easily get by with less. The benefit is with equipment that has higher digital specs, one does have the option to go high or low when the situation arises and it doesn't always come with a higher price tag.

Another tip. Check out any free software included with your choice. Sometimes, that value is a huge consideration both good and bad if it doesn't fit. :wink:

Note: Everyone has their preference and digital experiences, and this is only one. It would take more info and time to be thorough so, hopefully, this is a brief introduction for those who can use it. YMMV

FSB

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Post subject: Re: Starting to Record
Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 7:31 am
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Interesting coincidence as I suggested a discussion on this in one of our little
music groups back in early April.

http://www.soundclick.com/members/defau ... &id=140510

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Post subject: Re: Starting to Record
Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 3:24 pm
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I already love this forum, thanks guys! I'm looking at some of the packages as suggested with an audio interface. I'm not going to be recording anything else at the moment, I'm trying to use some other backing tracks that I can just grab from elsewhere or make myself on software (that's the plan anyway)

Thanks so much for your help!


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Post subject: Re: Starting to Record
Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 4:21 pm
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That's great, Beno27. Have fun on your journey, and let us know how you made out. Good to have you here.

FSB

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Post subject: Re: Starting to Record
Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 9:49 am
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My son recently got a Blue Snowball USB mic used for $25 and it would probably be good enough to get you started, and just plug and play! Run with Audacity (or my choice, Reaper). Doubt you can go cheaper.

Personally, I prefer dedicated recorders over computer w/interface... but I have a Focusrite Scarlett that's nice... you can find them used pretty cheap.

If you get a portable multi-track unit, you will have a lot of room to grow and most have decent built in mics to start out with. I love my ($130) Tascam DP-008 EX 8-track recorder! This is what I use and I get decent enough recordings to have my self-produced albums played on the radio occasionally.

I think there is always a use for a small recorder anyway (so even if you move up later, it won't be a waste!), you can probably get good demos from a Zoom H1 and it's on sale at B&H for only $69. The Zoom H2n for $150 is a really great little recorder!

Nothing wrong with the SM57! But I got a $15 Chinese knock off that is very good IMO... you can google them. For vocals, I have a Sennheisser E 835 and Audio Technica AT2035... so it's not like I'm comparing the knock off to junk!

Have fun! I found that recording and reviewing my playing helped me get better (hahaha! not like I'm any good... but still!). I guess one thing that surprised me was that what really sounded good was more likely to be something simple... while when playing, I'd always be focused on what difficult... KISS!

:)

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Post subject: Re: Starting to Record
Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 12:01 pm
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mh2000 wrote:
My son recently got a Blue Snowball USB mic used for $25 and it would probably be good enough to get you started, and just plug and play! Run with Audacity (or my choice, Reaper). Doubt you can go cheaper.

Personally, I prefer dedicated recorders over computer w/interface... but I have a Focusrite Scarlett that's nice... you can find them used pretty cheap.

If you get a portable multi-track unit, you will have a lot of room to grow and most have decent built in mics to start out with. I love my ($130) Tascam DP-008 EX 8-track recorder! This is what I use and I get decent enough recordings to have my self-produced albums played on the radio occasionally.

I think there is always a use for a small recorder anyway (so even if you move up later, it won't be a waste!), you can probably get good demos from a Zoom H1 and it's on sale at B&H for only $69. The Zoom H2n for $150 is a really great little recorder!

Nothing wrong with the SM57! But I got a $15 Chinese knock off that is very good IMO... you can google them. For vocals, I have a Sennheisser E 835 and Audio Technica AT2035... so it's not like I'm comparing the knock off to junk!

Have fun! I found that recording and reviewing my playing helped me get better (hahaha! not like I'm any good... but still!). I guess one thing that surprised me was that what really sounded good was more likely to be something simple... while when playing, I'd always be focused on what difficult... KISS!

:)
+1
All good advice, Mark. There's so much available that is good for recording with or without the bells and whistles. Today's technology and quality can get pretty amazing (and complicated or simple) at all levels compared to yesteryear. Learning curves, available time, needs and wants, and budgets will differ. The main thing is to get that desirable track layed down.

I can't emphasize it enough that it begins with the artist. You have that advantage, Mark. :D
FSB

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Post subject: Re: Starting to Record
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 3:21 pm
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
mh2000 wrote:
My son recently got a Blue Snowball USB mic used for $25 and it would probably be good enough to get you started, and just plug and play! Run with Audacity (or my choice, Reaper). Doubt you can go cheaper.

Personally, I prefer dedicated recorders over computer w/interface... but I have a Focusrite Scarlett that's nice... you can find them used pretty cheap.

If you get a portable multi-track unit, you will have a lot of room to grow and most have decent built in mics to start out with. I love my ($130) Tascam DP-008 EX 8-track recorder! This is what I use and I get decent enough recordings to have my self-produced albums played on the radio occasionally.

I think there is always a use for a small recorder anyway (so even if you move up later, it won't be a waste!), you can probably get good demos from a Zoom H1 and it's on sale at B&H for only $69. The Zoom H2n for $150 is a really great little recorder!

Nothing wrong with the SM57! But I got a $15 Chinese knock off that is very good IMO... you can google them. For vocals, I have a Sennheisser E 835 and Audio Technica AT2035... so it's not like I'm comparing the knock off to junk!

Have fun! I found that recording and reviewing my playing helped me get better (hahaha! not like I'm any good... but still!). I guess one thing that surprised me was that what really sounded good was more likely to be something simple... while when playing, I'd always be focused on what difficult... KISS!

:)
+1
All good advice, Mark. There's so much available that is good for recording with or without the bells and whistles. Today's technology and quality can get pretty amazing (and complicated or simple) at all levels compared to yesteryear. Learning curves, available time, needs and wants, and budgets will differ. The main thing is to get that desirable track layed down.

I can't emphasize it enough that it begins with the artist. You have that advantage, Mark. :D
FSB


Thanks FSB!!! :)

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Post subject: Re: Starting to Record
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:32 pm
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I had a small amount of experience attempting to record using only USB for input.
It didn't take me very long to discover I needed a proper interface to do anything worthwhile.
Hopefully your finances will soon allow you to move up to a better setup.
In the meantime have fun experimenting.

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Post subject: Re: Starting to Record
Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 9:46 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
I had a small amount of experience attempting to record using only USB for input.
It didn't take me very long to discover I needed a proper interface to do anything worthwhile.
Hopefully your finances will soon allow you to move up to a better setup.
In the meantime have fun experimenting.


The Behringer UM2 interface box is only $29. My son has one and it's fine I think.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UM2usb

Not sure if this is exactly my Chinese SM57 knock off, but $15 with cable:

https://www.amazon.com/Pyle-Pro-PDMIC78 ... WMAG6A5H6A

EDIT: This is actually my crap knock off mic ($19):

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... ctads-adid^156727059247-device^c-plaid^140837544261-sku^430559000000000@ADL4MF-adType^PLA

Whole setup for under $50!

Regarding the knock off mics, read the reviews etc. etc. As I said about mine above, I got it for $15 and it's great. Just like people say about the SM57's, it gives me the sound as-is and with no tweaking... that's why I'm not looking to replace it or record (my acoustic) with anything else at the moment (my AT 2035 is too bright for my tastes). I wouldn't go on the road with the knock off because I'm not very confident in its robustness -- Shures and Sennheisers are road proven and rock stolid, but soundwise, my SM57 knock off does exactly what I want.

Best!

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