It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:06 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: GC debt issues again
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:51 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:51 pm
Posts: 25350
Location: Witness Protection Program
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/guitar ... 2017-04-25

_________________
Being able to play and enjoy music is a gift that's often taken for granted.

Don't leave home without it!


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: GC debt issues again
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:05 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:37 am
Posts: 4099
Location: New York
what happens when you mix pothead musicians with business (no offense Fender). :lol:

_________________
Please subscribe to my Image Channel!
https://www.youtube.com/user/b7567


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: GC debt issues again
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:31 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
Guitar Circus has been cheating the hangman for a number of years and their bond rating combined with their undercapitalized debt-repayment schedule provides ample evidence that the musical instrument market is awash in inventory for which there is little demand. That may also be a significant reason why FMI tabled its intention to go public four years ago.

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: GC debt issues again
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:44 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:59 pm
Posts: 3439
Location: ohio
This is just what i could see happening. Companies make may too many products. They force dealers to buy large amounts of products to remain a dealer. The store i got my musicmaster back in 62 no longer carries fender- probably due to not being able to meet their minimum orders. I Have said for a long time that there are too many products in the marketplace.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: GC debt issues again
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:58 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 7998
Location: ʎɹʇunoɔ ǝsoɹ pןıʍ
So is it safe to assume there may be a temporary relief in new guitar pricing in the near future?
I can envision a big part of the GC recovery plan being blow-outs out the wazzoo.

_________________
Image
Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: GC debt issues again
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:39 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:50 pm
Posts: 4602
Location: ˚ɷ˚
phreddybee wrote:
This is just what i could see happening. Companies make may too many products. They force dealers to buy large amounts of products to remain a dealer.

That's not why companies like GC and Fender are in trouble. Guitar Center is profitable, but the debt is so large that they can't pay the debts no matter what they do.

The problem is vulture capitalism. A VC company buys a company's debts, and demands seats on the board and other control. When principal payments are due, the VC lends money to pay with, which increases the debt. Then the VC sells the inflated debt and partial ownership in the company at an inflated price to another VC, and the evil circle continues. Even though it's a company that by all rights should be solvent, it spirals further and further into debt and less and less ownership.

One day, the bubble must burst, but it doesn't have to be yet. GC's debt owners may find another VC willing to buy it for the debt + payments due, which further increases the debt, but gives GC breathing room until the new loan term's principal payments come due. Meanwhile the VCs play musical chairs, and as long as they aren't the one left standing when the music stops, they'll make a profit.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: GC debt issues again
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:06 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 7998
Location: ʎɹʇunoɔ ǝsoɹ pןıʍ
Thank you Art.
That was maybe the most astute definition of the true nature of capitalism I've seen yet.
I've always just said capitalism is a system where X profits at the expense of Y but that lacks the colour and detail of the picture you paint.

Make no mistake. All capitalism is vulture.
If it ain't vulture it's a failed venture.

One wonders how long the likes of GC have in this world and who will be next.

_________________
Image
Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: GC debt issues again
Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:48 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:22 pm
Posts: 718
BMW-KTM wrote:
Thank you Art.
That was maybe the most astute definition of the true nature of capitalism I've seen yet.
I've always just said capitalism is a system where X profits at the expense of Y but that lacks the colour and detail of the picture you paint.

Make no mistake. All capitalism is vulture.
If it ain't vulture it's a failed venture.

One wonders how long the likes of GC have in this world and who will be next.


Sorry guys, but what this is, is not capitalism. In capitalism a company that cannot pay it's debt goes bankrupt and others move in to fill the need that is left.

What we have here is an attempt to "fix" capitalism, and that is why we are in so much trouble. Capitalism is a force of nature, it is what naturally happens when left alone. Unlike communism and socialism, nobody "made up" capitalism.

Every time man tries to "improve" nature we get burned, and we are going to get burned again. :)


8)

_________________
You can't have too many guitars!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: GC debt issues again
Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:50 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
omar59 wrote:
Sorry guys, but what this is, is not capitalism. In capitalism a company that cannot pay it's debt goes bankrupt and others move in to fill the need that is left.

What we have here is an attempt to "fix" capitalism, and that is why we are in so much trouble. Capitalism is a force of nature, it is what naturally happens when left alone. Unlike communism and socialism, nobody "made up" capitalism.

Every time man tries to "improve" nature we get burned, and we are going to get burned again.


+1000!

However I disagree insofar as the undercapitalized status of Guitar Circus goes. Their financial solvency (or insolvency as it were) means as much to me as the size, shape, color, and consistency of my turds. If they go titsup, no biggee. Life will go on. Trust me.

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: GC debt issues again
Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:00 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
Yaaaaaaawwwwwn! So, various speculators/GC haters have been squawking about GCs demise for what, ten years now? :roll:

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: GC debt issues again
Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:12 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:38 am
Posts: 12975
Location: Canada
Well, they could hope for a government tax break, bailout, hand out, sponsorship, or the like. Seems to be a popular trend on both sides of the border. :P
FSB
Oops! Sorry. Knock me down and slap me silly. I got that mixed up with other free enterprise.

_________________
Hello, big guitar. Meet my little fingers.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: sjlen and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: