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Has The Fender Lounge jumped the shark?
Poll ended at Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:02 am
Yes 29%  29%  [ 4 ]
No 43%  43%  [ 6 ]
Not Sure 29%  29%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 14
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Post subject: Re: Has The Fender Lounge jumped the shark?
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:03 pm
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Post subject: Re: Has The Fender Lounge jumped the shark?
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:09 pm
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A few years ago the Lounge would routinely have a page and a quarter or half of active topics. Very few of the "stickies" at the top now. Same for the Strat page. A lot of energetic, interesting people have moved on to new things. The most interesting person mentioned he got tired of the conflict on the Forum.


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Post subject: Re: Has The Fender Lounge jumped the shark?
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:40 pm
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They've jumped a Sharknado....


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Post subject: Re: Has The Fender Lounge jumped the shark?
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:02 am
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GTG wrote:
A few years ago the Lounge would routinely have a page and a quarter or half of active topics. Very few of the "stickies" at the top now. Same for the Strat page. A lot of energetic, interesting people have moved on to new things. The most interesting person mentioned he got tired of the conflict on the Forum.


Exactly! It would be cool to see a few new topics each day to discuss and this topic is about the Lounge
area only, not the other sections which change frequently.

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Post subject: Re: Has The Fender Lounge jumped the shark?
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:05 am
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I've been on various guitar forums for 20 years under different names.
Yup. 20 years. I found my first guitar discussion website in 1997.
This is the 7th guitar related forum that I have been a long term active member of in that time.
What I'm saying is, I've seen a lot of stuff go down and I have a number of thoughts.

I think people get involved in discussion forums to learn about something they are interested in.
I think once they feel they have learned as much as they wanted or could from the forum there may be little or no motivation to continue participating.
Not everyone comes to a place like this for camaraderie.
Mike has had the poll up for 3 full days now and there are 10 votes as I type this.
I think that speaks to how many come here.
Not an exact science, of course.
I'm sure more come who do not vote but it is an indication nevertheless.
Guitar boards have a lifespan.
They cycle through the stages.
Posting herd pix, meet n greets for folks in the same area, maple/rosewood debates, tone-wood debates, the relic issue and other hot button topics and that doesn't even take amps into account.
Someone asks the question, "What do you think of ...?"
Discussions change from mechanical and factual to opinion.
Fights start, people hold grudges and find opportunities for retaliation, people leave.
The remaining people start fighting about all the people leaving so more people leave.
Pretty soon it's a skeleton crew.
That's a pretty crude rough outline but it is a general trend.
Boards come and go; many of us older types have seen it.
I've seen it too many times.

I think we've been especially fortunate that this one did not devolve into a good old boys club.
I think that is in part due to involvement from FMIC.
There are rules of conduct but not a heavy handed application.
There didn't have to be a heavy handed police force.
Fender employees were active on the board.
People saw that, respected it and behaved ... for the most part.
There were stickies for new gear announcements and open discussions about them.
Those things prolly tacked a couple of years onto the lifespan of the board.

I've been on forums in the past where the only thing that mattered was your post count.
The good old boys were the boys with the high post counts.
That meant if you weren't joining up in the first week you had to play catch up.
Whether you had anything insightful to say or not was irrelevant.
The pecking order was based on post count and the bigger fish could and did prompt the mods to send warnings to the bait fish if they didn't display the proper level of submission.
If mods intervened it usually wasn't related to topic, but pecking order.
The original TDP was like that back in 1997.
This board actually traces its roots back to the TDP.
When it became the "RI" things were different.
People stuck to topics more and were generally more civil.
I survived it for about 2 years before having my fill.
I was also a long term part of the board that went in between that one and this one, started by our friend from Twin Falls.
I was there when it was proposed that FMIC might start paying the bills, which was Fender's first toe in the water before they dove right in and built this place.
We have a fairly simple family tree here.

Our ancestors continue to live but nowhere near their former glory.
If they are any indication we will not see our former glory days again either.
Not without a huge injection of adrenaline from Fender themselves.
They are the reason we lasted as long as we did.
People could interact with representatives from the company.
They participated in discussions, they answered questions, they shared their talents.
CG's board rose to prominence very quickly the moment FMIC got involved and the decline began as soon as they left.
We like to think of this place as OUR board but it's not.
It belongs to Fender.
It is theirs to fix.

Or not.

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Post subject: Re: Has The Fender Lounge jumped the shark?
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:23 pm
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I admit to a bunch of time spent reading this Forum starting with the very first post in 2007. There is much to read and so many cool contributors were gone long before I arrived. Many cool people are here now. The early cycles were the norm perhaps as 500K + members might be the number of guitar players that would even sign on to a Forum. Perpetual max for Brad if he wants to keep it up. A lot of new players will come on just like me just like you ( that was a song back in the 60's oui or non?) Fender has been selling a lot of guitars. :D

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Post subject: Re: Has The Fender Lounge jumped the shark?
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:33 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
I've been on various guitar forums for 20 years under different names.
Yup. 20 years. I found my first guitar discussion website in 1997.
This is the 7th guitar related forum that I have been a long term active member of in that time.
What I'm saying is, I've seen a lot of stuff go down and I have a number of thoughts.

I think people get involved in discussion forums to learn about something they are interested in.
I think once they feel they have learned as much as they wanted or could from the forum there may be little or no motivation to continue participating.
Not everyone comes to a place like this for camaraderie.
Mike has had the poll up for 3 full days now and there are 10 votes as I type this.
I think that speaks to how many come here.
Not an exact science, of course.
I'm sure more come who do not vote but it is an indication nevertheless.
Guitar boards have a lifespan.
They cycle through the stages.
Posting herd pix, meet n greets for folks in the same area, maple/rosewood debates, tone-wood debates, the relic issue and other hot button topics and that doesn't even take amps into account.
Someone asks the question, "What do you think of ...?"
Discussions change from mechanical and factual to opinion.
Fights start, people hold grudges and find opportunities for retaliation, people leave.
The remaining people start fighting about all the people leaving so more people leave.
Pretty soon it's a skeleton crew.
That's a pretty crude rough outline but it is a general trend.
Boards come and go; many of us older types have seen it.
I've seen it too many times.

I think we've been especially fortunate that this one did not devolve into a good old boys club.
I think that is in part due to involvement from FMIC.
There are rules of conduct but not a heavy handed application.
There didn't have to be a heavy handed police force.
Fender employees were active on the board.
People saw that, respected it and behaved ... for the most part.
There were stickies for new gear announcements and open discussions about them.
Those things prolly tacked a couple of years onto the lifespan of the board.

I've been on forums in the past where the only thing that mattered was your post count.
The good old boys were the boys with the high post counts.
That meant if you weren't joining up in the first week you had to play catch up.
Whether you had anything insightful to say or not was irrelevant.
The pecking order was based on post count and the bigger fish could and did prompt the mods to send warnings to the bait fish if they didn't display the proper level of submission.
If mods intervened it usually wasn't related to topic, but pecking order.
The original TDP was like that back in 1997.
This board actually traces its roots back to the TDP.
When it became the "RI" things were different.
People stuck to topics more and were generally more civil.
I survived it for about 2 years before having my fill.
I was also a long term part of the board that went in between that one and this one, started by our friend from Twin Falls.
I was there when it was proposed that FMIC might start paying the bills, which was Fender's first toe in the water before they dove right in and built this place.
We have a fairly simple family tree here.

Our ancestors continue to live but nowhere near their former glory.
If they are any indication we will not see our former glory days again either.
Not without a huge injection of adrenaline from Fender themselves.
They are the reason we lasted as long as we did.
People could interact with representatives from the company.
They participated in discussions, they answered questions, they shared their talents.
CG's board rose to prominence very quickly the moment FMIC got involved and the decline began as soon as they left.
We like to think of this place as OUR board but it's not.
It belongs to Fender.
It is theirs to fix.

Or not.


That's interesting that you mentioned forums becoming a good old boys club. I thought about mentioning the fact this place never seemed to be that way, but it seemed to be like that with an amp company that I had signed up with when I bought one of their amps. I suppose it could have just been my perception, comparing to this place, but that's the vibe I always got there.

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Post subject: Re: Has The Fender Lounge jumped the shark?
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:19 am
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I don't think the "Good Ol' Boys" see themselves that way. So if you're looking around this forum saying "nope, I don't see any good ol' boys here" ... it might just be you.

I'll give you a hint ... the entire content of their posts are often just a "+1". Any names pop into your head when I say that? Bingo. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Has The Fender Lounge jumped the shark?
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:31 am
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strings, with all due respect, if this place is your point of reference then you have absolutely no idea what a real good old boys club looks like. You need to develop a thicker skin and not take people disagreeing with your opinion so personally. THAT is the source of much of your conflict here. By your behaviour here you demonstrate an inability to have other people espouse views different from your own. Different views are what makes places like this good. I encourage you to embrace it rather than fight it. Try to concentrate less on style of delivery and more on content.

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Post subject: Re: Has The Fender Lounge jumped the shark?
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:56 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
By your behaviour here you demonstrate an inability to have other people espouse views different from your own. Different views are what makes places like this good. I encourage you to embrace it rather than fight it.

so ... you disagree with my view then? Why not embrace it? :lol:

Beemer, I've been on many forums over the years and not all music related. Also been a member of computer software forums, gaming forums, car forums, and IT forums.

The Fender forums are great. I came over here because I couldn't deal with the administration of the Gibson/Epiphone forums anymore. Between the heavy-handed moderation and their frequent database crashes resulting in lost posts because they didn't have proper backups ... I had to move on. I wonder if Duane is still there? :roll:

I'm sorry if you disagree with my view about the "Good ol' Boys" club. But this is an open forum after all. I think you need to develop a thicker skin and not take people disagreeing with your opinion so personally.

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Post subject: Re: Has The Fender Lounge jumped the shark?
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:11 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
I don't think the "Good Ol' Boys" see themselves that way. So if you're looking around this forum saying "nope, I don't see any good ol' boys here" ... it might just be you.

I'll give you a hint ... the entire content of their posts are often just a "+1". Any names pop into your head when I say that? Bingo. :wink:
strings10927 wrote:
I don't think the "Good Ol' Boys" see themselves that way. So if you're looking around this forum saying "nope, I don't see any good ol' boys here" ... it might just be you.

I'll give you a hint ... the entire content of their posts are often just a "+1". Any names pop into your head when I say that? Bingo. :wink:



+1


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Post subject: Re: Has The Fender Lounge jumped the shark?
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:12 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
The original TDP was like that back in 1997.
This board actually traces its roots back to the TDP.


This board traces its roots back to the TDP? Just curious what you mean?

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Post subject: Re: Has The Fender Lounge jumped the shark?
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:01 am
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Brad Traweek - Fender wrote:
This board traces its roots back to the TDP? Just curious what you mean?
I imagine it's possible there may previously have been other, less successful, discussion forums dedicated to Fender products but the TDP was the first to do so with a relatively wide audience.
I didn't find it until the winter of '96/97 but it was pretty clear it had been flourishing prior to my discovery of it.
For how long I do not know.
It had a pretty big following considering at that time the internet was fairly young and the percentage of people who used the internet was nowhere near what it is today.
An Englishman who had moved to USA years before and settled in Twin Falls, Idaho was a member there.
He had the idea to expand on the theme and build a more comprehensive Fender enthusiast's website that included all Fender products beyond the Telecaster.
IIRC, he sought advise from some of the mods at the TDP before starting.
He used a web service called eesite to create a bulletin board called the Fender Discussion Page.
The eesite days didn't last long and he moved to another service within a year.
I had followed him to his new eesite and, for a time, was a member of both sites.
Once he had moved to the new service the site's popularity grew rapidly and soon overtook the TDP in membership growth and search engine hits.
This was back in the days of newsgroups and services like Alta Vista and other search engines that either no longer exist or have become of no consequence.
Fender took notice of the site and the rapidly growing membership and decided to make an offer to support the forum financially.
Fender had previously had zero experience with discussion forums.
There was an open discussion amoung forum members as to whether or not it was a good idea to have Fender paying the bills and possibly calling the shots, the latter being of more concern.
The decision was made to let Fender in as a financial backer with a few conditions, the specifics of which I no longer recall.
With the influx of cash and increased traffic due to Fender providing a link on their own page for a short time, the FDP grew even more.
After a number of years Fender bowed out and the FDP was left to manage on its own.
I'm not sure how much longer after that, Fender created their own forum; this place.

When I said "traces its root" I meant the lineage and sequence of events that lead to the creation of this forum.
FMIC may or may not agree but from my perspective, the TDP is an ancestor of this place.
It gave birth to the FDP, which was Fender's first experience with forums before this.

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Post subject: Re: Has The Fender Lounge jumped the shark?
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:19 am
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Post subject: Re: Has The Fender Lounge jumped the shark?
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:11 am
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BMW-KTM: thanks, that's interesting perspective there. I wouldn't really go so far as to say that this forum's "roots" lie in either the TDP or FDP, although I am (and others here are) certainly quite aware of and hold tremendous respect for both sites and their respective founders. These forums were actually essentially a pet project, based largely on my own prior experience with a certain "other" Leo Fender brand that I worked with prior to my Fender career (hint - the brand name has two letters separated by an ampersand :-) ). In fact, if you read the history of the FDP in depth, you'll see references to some of that activity.

Anyway, to Mike's original post: believe it or not, forum traffic is actually up fairly substantially over the past ~3 months. Reason? We finally got rid of that ridiculously-clunky login mechanism that was making it extremely difficult for folks to create an account here. New registrations are trending up substantially accordingly, and I think that in its own right may somewhat be in the spirit of what Mike is getting at here: we're seeing some trending toward less deep / meaningful discussion and more discussion from "newbies," so to speak.

Prizing is an issue too, for sure - I myself used to find it quite a joy to hand out freebies here every now and then, and we've certainly gotten away from that activity for a bit. Point taken, there, Mike, and I don't see any reason we couldn't fire up some giveaway activity here every now a then. Making a note to put some more thought into mechanics around that!

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