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Post subject: Why don't Fender publish their string tension?
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:34 pm
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Why don't Fender publish their string tensions in a chart like how D'Addario and others do. It's good for comparison and matching. I'm trying to compare the tensions of Original Bullets with others.


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Post subject: Re: Why don't Fender publish their string tension?
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:58 pm
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You can use the D' Addario chart for now, then call Fender CS for any differences you may have a concern about.

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Post subject: Re: Why don't Fender publish their string tension?
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:28 pm
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I bought a new Strat with 54 pickups. This came with 9s. I'm trying to find a set of strings to suit what I'm after. I like the vintage clean sound, with some strumming. I've been comparing Gibson Vintage Reissue 10-46 to EXL 10-46. The Gibsons were too stiff, felt like 11s. So I bought 9-42 Original Bullets but that felt like rubber bands. I then put on Original Bullets 10-46 and it felt nice. But it's still slinky when I hit hard, on the lower strings. Each time I change gauge I have to go through the process of adjusting neck/saddle and some intonation. Things get complicated when I move from acoustic to Strat and back. Although I enjoy experimenting but it's daunting. I even changed out my Martin from 12s to 11s to match the feel of 9s on the Fender. Although 9s and 11s go well together, but they're too delicate for me. It would be nice if Fender could publish their tensions so players can choose with less trials. I just bought a set of Pyramid Classic Round Core 11-48 to test. I'm hoping to end up with Original Bullets 11 gauge. I hope that's not as tight as EXP 11. Without charts one wouldn't know.


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Post subject: Re: Why don't Fender publish their string tension?
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:57 pm
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Bauzer, I am leaning in the direction that a 9, slinky(just that), XL, Roto(stiff as hell), La Bella and others are going to be close tension-wise and shouldn't affect playability. I am chary of neck adjusting and press harder if the action is a little hi (a good luthier for something serious). Mixing is a helper and if you are focused on it you will find that happy medium. Hope this helps.

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Post subject: Re: Why don't Fender publish their string tension?
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:23 pm
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Solid Body Love Songs wrote:
Bauzer, I am leaning in the direction that a 9, slinky(just that), XL, Roto(stiff as hell), La Bella and others are going to be close tension-wise and shouldn't affect playability. I am chary of neck adjusting and press harder if the action is a little hi (a good luthier for something serious). Mixing is a helper and if you are focused on it you will find that happy medium. Hope this helps.


Thanks for that Solid Body Love Songs. Very helpful. I like Original Bullets, to keep things "Fender." I will try Pyramid 11-48 and Bullets 11-49 just for experience sake. I'll probably end up with 10s.


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Post subject: Re: Why don't Fender publish their string tension?
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:56 pm
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Once a string has been stretched to tuning stability, the only things that affects tension is the string mass, scale length and tuning frequency. What materials are used doesn't matter other than how it affects string mass.

If you have a set of used strings, and precision scales, you can find the tension for that string. Cut the string at the bridge and nut bend (i.e. to scale length), and weigh it. Then plug it into the following formula:

Tension in pound force = Weight in ounces * ( frequency in Hz * 2 * scale length)^2 / ( 6182 * scale length)

If you have an A string that weighs 0.10 oz when cut to scale length, you get:
0.10 * (110 * 2 * 25.5)^2 / ( 6182 * 25.5) = 20 pound force

Or you can measure with a set of fish scales. Unless you're both strong and limber, this requires two people. Brace the guitar, and instead of fastening the string at the string post, loop it over the string post to the side and pull with a set of fish scales until you're roughly in tune. It's easiest to pull in half pound increments and hold the tension as constant as you can while the other person checks the tuning. If you can hold it steady enough, you can fine adjust the tension to get closer to the tuning frequency and get more accurate values.


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Post subject: Re: Why don't Fender publish their string tension?
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:08 pm
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If you can get used to using the 9 (this coming from a former 13 player) then mix up from there. 9's sound as good and help your touch IMHO YMMV (to quote my favorite Martian).

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Post subject: Re: Why don't Fender publish their string tension?
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:41 pm
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Solid Body Love Songs wrote:
If you can get used to using the 9 (this coming from a former 13 player) then mix up from there. 9's sound as good and help your touch IMHO YMMV (to quote my favorite Martian).


I had the Original Bullets 9s on my Fender and Lifespan 11s on Martin last weekend. I gotta say it was fun. I could play the dreadnought at home without fearing that it's too loud. The 9s on the Fender felt really soft however. I had to change my strumming and flat-picking style. Honestly, 9s on Strat and 11s on acoustic is a good combination. It makes me play more consciously too. I took them off the following Monday. Somehow, 12s on dread and 10s on strat feels like 2 different guitars. I know they are but I'm trying to match these guitars. They are used for same genre songs. Mostly vocals and strumming with very little running leads.


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Post subject: Re: Why don't Fender publish their string tension?
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:30 pm
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Thank you, I am going to try Fender 3150R Original Bullets Pure Nickel Bullet End Electric Guitar Strings


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Post subject: Re: Why don't Fender publish their string tension?
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:04 am
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Solid Body Love Songs wrote:
Thank you, I am going to try Fender 3150R Original Bullets Pure Nickel Bullet End Electric Guitar Strings



That's the one I have on right now. I had 3150R to 3150L last week and now back to 3150R. These are great. Best so far in terms of feel and sound. They feel softer than Gibson Pure Nickels gauge for gauge. They may be softer than D'Addarios too because the 3150R feels like Addarios' plated nickel strings (plated being softer than pure). I have to try Pyramid. But I feel I will come full circle back to 3150R or 11-49.


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Post subject: Re: Why don't Fender publish their string tension?
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:09 am
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That's why I wanted to know the Fender tensions. I'm also curious as to whether others who have used 3150R felt that they were softer? Pure nickels should be stiffer than plated (of same gauge). But these Original Bullets 3150R feels really like 9.5. I have to admit that I was pleasantly surprised by how good they were (are still).


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Post subject: Re: Why don't Fender publish their string tension?
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:23 am
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arth1 wrote:
Once a string has been stretched to tuning stability, the only things that affects tension is the string mass, scale length and tuning frequency. What materials are used doesn't matter other than how it affects string mass.

If you have a set of used strings, and precision scales, you can find the tension for that string. Cut the string at the bridge and nut bend (i.e. to scale length), and weigh it. Then plug it into the following formula:

Tension in pound force = Weight in ounces * ( frequency in Hz * 2 * scale length)^2 / ( 6182 * scale length)

If you have an A string that weighs 0.10 oz when cut to scale length, you get:
0.10 * (110 * 2 * 25.5)^2 / ( 6182 * 25.5) = 20 pound force

Or you can measure with a set of fish scales. Unless you're both strong and limber, this requires two people. Brace the guitar, and instead of fastening the string at the string post, loop it over the string post to the side and pull with a set of fish scales until you're roughly in tune. It's easiest to pull in half pound increments and hold the tension as constant as you can while the other person checks the tuning. If you can hold it steady enough, you can fine adjust the tension to get closer to the tuning frequency and get more accurate values.

Art, you are too cool for school 8)

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Post subject: Re: Why don't Fender publish their string tension?
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:33 am
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Solid Body Love Songs wrote:
arth1 wrote:
Once a string has been stretched to tuning stability, the only things that affects tension is the string mass, scale length and tuning frequency. What materials are used doesn't matter other than how it affects string mass.

If you have a set of used strings, and precision scales, you can find the tension for that string. Cut the string at the bridge and nut bend (i.e. to scale length), and weigh it. Then plug it into the following formula:

Tension in pound force = Weight in ounces * ( frequency in Hz * 2 * scale length)^2 / ( 6182 * scale length)

If you have an A string that weighs 0.10 oz when cut to scale length, you get:
0.10 * (110 * 2 * 25.5)^2 / ( 6182 * 25.5) = 20 pound force

Or you can measure with a set of fish scales. Unless you're both strong and limber, this requires two people. Brace the guitar, and instead of fastening the string at the string post, loop it over the string post to the side and pull with a set of fish scales until you're roughly in tune. It's easiest to pull in half pound increments and hold the tension as constant as you can while the other person checks the tuning. If you can hold it steady enough, you can fine adjust the tension to get closer to the tuning frequency and get more accurate values.

Art, you are too cool for school 8)


+1

I'm noting down the formula 8)


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Post subject: Re: Why don't Fender publish their string tension?
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:35 pm
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Bauzer wrote:
+1

I'm noting down the formula 8)

Note that it only works on already tensioned strings. As we all know, there's a bit of give in completely new strings; they stretch and thin out (reducing the mass per string span in the above formula).

D'Addario has changed how they publish tension, and their new values now reflect the string pull after tensioning, and better calculations for how scale length affects it. If you see a new set of strings saying 1 lb less than an old set, it's likely not because they've changed the strings. It's just more accurate now.


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Post subject: Re: Why don't Fender publish their string tension?
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:54 pm
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I spoke to the fella at Zachary guitars about intonation. He offered that core mass on bass strings was a huge factor in tension and therefore intonation.

Aside from that, use the generic information out there. There's no noteworthy difference in tension.

All I'd say, from having recently dressed a load of frets from guitars using Rotosound and EB, avoid them. They seem to be coarse and carve channels into the frets quicker than D'addario/Fender and most other manufacturers
[ADDITION} The extra wear attributed to EB and Roto's could just as easily be muckier players that sweat more or don't wipe down after a gig

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