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Post subject: best neck screws on Strat/Tele
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:11 pm
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The question of variety of neck screws, and best joint technique has come to mind.

I had not given this much thought before, but noticed on my production Stratocasters Fender has used something that really looks more like a sheet metal screw than a wood screw for joining the body and neck. The units are threaded all the way up to the head and unlike a true wood screw does not have a unthreaded "shank"

Now in my house-hold wood construction projects, I have come to learn that if you are joining two pieces of wood together with wood screws or lag bolts screws, lets say two 4"x4"'s, a much more steady robust joint is to be had, if the hole in the piece of wood that is the "entry point" of the screw is slightly enlarged over the diameter of the screw, so that the threads do not engage the first piece, leaving all the binding and "pull" applied to the second or terminal piece. I hope that makes sense.

However, Fender leaves the holes in the bodies equal in size (diameter) to the neck holes. Both neck and body are engaged by the screw and I have read other commenters recommend to drill out the body holes slightly so that the screw does not engage the body but only the neck.

Now they build these products and have for years done so and I hesitate to second guess their experience, but it seems not to be the best option.

Does anyone here have some good facts about this topic.

Thanks
OL

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Post subject: Re: best neck screws on Strat/Tele
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:10 pm
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Fender use only wood screw, no metal screw .

They are many way to screw two piece of wood together with wood screw .
Yes screw are tight in the neck's holes.


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Post subject: Re: best neck screws on Strat/Tele
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:59 pm
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A very slight enlargement (1/64" - 1/32") of the 4 holes in the body (not the neck) should theoretically improve clamping force for a given tightness of the screws. There are many who advocate such an operation. There are even those who recommend the installation of bushings in the body and threaded machine screw inserts into the neck and replacing the wood screws with machine screws. The very slight drilling of the body holes may have some merit but I doubt the other more radical procedure would have much in the way of benefit compared to the risk involved. In truth, I have never encountered a Fender bolt neck in which the screws supplied by the factory were insufficient to provide adequate clamping force.

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Post subject: Re: best neck screws on Strat/Tele
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:25 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
In truth, I have never encountered a Fender bolt neck in which the screws supplied by the factory were insufficient to provide adequate clamping force.


+1

(and I've owned about twenty Fender instruments over the years)

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: best neck screws on Strat/Tele
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:48 pm
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I do admit though that I have never owned one of those early 80s 3 screw jobs.
Those have always made me wonder.

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Post subject: Re: best neck screws on Strat/Tele
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:05 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
A very slight enlargement (1/64" - 1/32") of the 4 holes in the body (not the neck) should theoretically improve clamping force for a given tightness of the screws. There are many who advocate such an operation. There are even those who recommend the installation of bushings in the body and threaded machine screw inserts into the neck and replacing the wood screws with machine screws. The very slight drilling of the body holes may have some merit but I doubt the other more radical procedure would have much in the way of benefit compared to the risk involved. In truth, I have never encountered a Fender bolt neck in which the screws supplied by the factory were insufficient to provide adequate clamping force.


Given my amateur but long time experience with wood joinery...
As long as the neck is kept stable enough not to move when the strings are off, I don't see much benefit in clamping the neck to the body very hard perpendicular to the strings. The substantial force of the string pull is what holds the screws and neck steady.

You certainly don't want any perpendicular coupling that is stronger than the wood itself - that reduces the area which a levered force can be spread out on, and you are more prone to breakage at the edge of the joint where the coupling stops and the wood can move. A mortise and tenon holds up better than metal screws precisely because it is no stronger than the wood itself, allowing the forces to spread out over a larger area.

The combined string tension can put as much as 200 lbf of pressure on the neck. That's like a grown man standing on it. If you replaced the screws with threadless screws (dowels), you probably still wouldn't be able to move the neck much when stringed.


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Post subject: Re: best neck screws on Strat/Tele
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:42 am
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Art, the OP didn't appear to state a particular music related reason for his interest in the subject that I could perceive.
I suspect simple curiosity about the mechanics of it.
Nevertheless, I believe the reason some people wish to strengthen the clamping force between neck and body has to do with a desire to improve sustain.
The theory is: a higher pressure of contact between the two pieces of lumber provides a better transmission of vibrational energy between them.
They more closely behave like they are one piece.
I suspect the theory is sound, based on my current understanding of how guitars work.
I do keep learning though.

It also makes sense to me from a 'physics' standpoint, given that there are so many laws of physics in which the effect of a particular force is inversely proportional to the distance between two bodies.
Heat, for example, might be an easy demonstration.
Place your hand gently on something hot and you feel the heat.
Press your hand firmly and you feel it more strongly.
There is a more efficient transfer of the energy.

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Post subject: Re: best neck screws on Strat/Tele
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:47 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
The theory is: a higher pressure of contact between the two pieces of lumber provides a better transmission of vibrational energy between them.

Yes, absolutely, but the very substantial string pull provides that high pressure. :)


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Post subject: Re: best neck screws on Strat/Tele
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:27 am
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Exactly.
However, some people are not satisfied with that and wish to improve it further.
We each have our own ideas about what's an improvement and what's not.
I've never tried that operation and I likely won't.
As the years go by I find myself moving more to the higher end guitars and bypassing the less expensive models.
Taking a drill to a high end guitar simply as an experiment is not something I am prepared to do.
I do have that Korean Strat which I bought for the sole purpose of being a test bed but I have improved it to such a degree I wouldn't want to risk it as that guitar now represents a significant investment despite its low initial price tag.

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Post subject: Re: best neck screws on Strat/Tele
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:18 pm
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What I was driving at with my original post was, why does Fender use a neck screw threaded all the way to the screw head. The screw engages both the body and the neck which is an inferior joint compared to a screw that just engages the neck only, with all possible pressure pulling the neck to the body.

This seems to be the situation as it stands on all my Fender Production Stratocasters.

OL

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Post subject: Re: best neck screws on Strat/Tele
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:35 pm
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OK
Gotcha.
Yes, I have seen some OEM neck screws that were threaded all the way.
It makes no sense to me either.
Fortunately none of my own guitars have them so I am not confronted with that.
If I were I would be seeking out a set of replacement screws with the half inch unthreaded shank at the top, but that's just me.
Amazon carries genuine Fender parts.
I'm sure you could find something there ... even if it was just for a look-see.

Just out of curiosity, what production years and country of origins do you have?
It might be interesting to add such info to our collective base of knowledge.

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Post subject: Re: best neck screws on Strat/Tele
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:54 pm
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Yes, that's what I am getting at. All my Fenders have factory parts and have the threaded to the top screws.

What would be best is a shank that is unthreaded until it leaves the body.

I can find hardware store wood screws that approximate this, they are brass or chepo zinc, but yet to find stainless steel dome headed one that works.

I may try out my local Fastener specialty store.

Thanks
OL

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Post subject: Re: best neck screws on Strat/Tele
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:13 pm
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I doubt you will be able to find "bright" plated screws at your local nutz-n-boltz store.

I was going to say there are plenty of internet options for ordering the correct screws that will look as good as the OEM ones but upon looking at sites like Overdrive, Stewmac and Warmoth it seems they've all gone that way.

Amazon may be your best bet yet.

Screws @ Amazon

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Post subject: Re: best neck screws on Strat/Tele
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:29 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
I doubt you will be able to find "bright" plated screws at your local nutz-n-boltz store.


Our local Ace Hardware store has a specialty fastener section and I find quite a few nickel-plated screws that have applications for Fender amps and guitars.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: best neck screws on Strat/Tele
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:49 pm
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BMW, Retro

After looking around in the music supply industry, it looks like the thread to the top version is what everyone sells.

I keep looking.

OL

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